SB was a 16/8 weak reg that was pretty aggro post flop. Limper was a fish.


Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $2(BB) Replayer
SB ($400)
Hero ($325)
UTG ($84.40)
CO ($113)
BTN ($244)

Dealt to Hero 4 4

UTG calls $2, CO calls $2, fold, SB calls $1, Hero checks

FLOP ($8) 6 7 4

SB bets $6, Hero calls $6, UTG calls $6, CO calls $6

TURN ($32) 6 7 4 9

SB bets $20, Hero calls $20, UTG raises to $76.40 (AI), CO folds, SB raises to $392 (AI), Hero ????

fold is good, nh

I lean to a fold, tough to have weaker hand to shove here on turn.

Nh, now fold

Theres no 3-5 combo here, theres no 5-8 combo here. So you have 12 8-9 combos. 12 8-7 combos. 1010 to AA (30 combo). 9 9-7 combos. And 9 overset possibilities. So you lose 9/71. If you think hes not isolating with some of those hands remove them completely or partialy, he might only be doing the 8-7 and 8-9 with 2 spades. I don't think you can discount any overpairs.

What is your image, is this player possibly exploiting your tight folds?

We are getting such a bad price. But SB might think we are extremely weak and want to isolate fish.

Even if we are hero we are at worst a 80% favorite At best 95% and get crushed by sets.

I don't know. I find it is a tougher spot than any one here is making it. I'd need to know more about villain. If weak reg I'm leaning for a call.


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I really have a hard time folding sets on the turn being that board can pair on the river. Plus if both of these crap players have two pair at showdown, you're going to be sick if you folded. I would call and leave it in the hands of the pokergods.

I also would have isolated preflop.

I agree with most of your analysis but I don't think you can discount suited 10/8 combos or 5/8 in a 4 person limped pot.

Your right, at a bare minimum there is 12 10-8 combos that have us crushed. And as mentioned some 5-8 combos. To me it still comes down to villains image and our own image (how often we fold to squeeze). I just don't think villain would JAM with the pure nuts.

clear fold. SB never bluffing here and he's not jamming over 2p or worse

i'm definitely raising flop. as played turn is an easy fold. we're not good here often enough to play for 200 BBs

Ok, I'm glad a majority of you guys advocating in folding the turn. I did fold the turn, turns out SB had j9 ss for top pair and flush draw. I think it's a fold most of the time however.

Raising the flop is awful IMO, I fold out hands that I beat and not getting worse hands to fold.

Isn't flop a raise on this texture ?

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The only thing that's awful is your reasoning. Fold out hands that you beat? 76, 45, A2 of spades, etc.. Plenty is calling your raise.

good to see games aren't dead. raise flop, my friend.

as played, raise the flop, make it around $20-$24, since fish isn't deep, just ignore the reg OTF unless he comes over the top, then it's fine folding bottom set, since the best you can hope for is to be facing with combo draws(which I don't think they play super aggressive this deep).

If fish were around 200bb deep, then You should never fold, also you should make a huge overbet raise OTF, something around 10x pot and jam on safe turns(unless you make a boat, then you can bet smaller so fish can catch up and then you can stack him OTR).

I think in those limped pots, people usually lose a ton of value vs fish by not overbetting as big as they should, there's no point in making a std raise(or slowplay) vs someone who will call an absurd overbet .

My coach thought post flop is fine. If I raise here, I think villain is reraising/shoving or folding, putting me in a difficult spot to call a huge bet/raise with bottom set. If villain was very fishy, I would be more inclined to call the reshove/reraise and definitely if it was 100bb stacks easy but 160+bb, I think it's different. By flatting, it induces more bluffs from villain.

I thought just calling would be fine to keep fish in with wider range and he can shove otf sometimes after we flat, but these guys are right are just raising is likely a lot better.

Fish is pretty inelastic to raises, depending of the fish ofc, if it's the weaktight 30/2, then they will fold their midpairs, but if it's a huge whale, they will probably continue against a raise with most of what he called the initial bet.

the problem of this hand is that fish is shortstacked and we're absurdly deep vs the reg(looking at SPR, since it's a limped pot). So we'll either win a small pot or lose a big one if we go in OTF.

You're right.

When the question was posed to me I was just looking at the turn and overlooked the flop a bit which is my mistake.

Yeah flop is just a raise

I'll keep that in mind next time. So if we raise the flop and SB over jams, do we call?

I don't think so.

Would be easy to come up with a range and evaluate pot odds vs equity though.

I think it is played fine if folded, do not really understand why all are so happy to raise otf.

+1