Thin value vs 2fish on paired dry board 31bb Pot

[morc1us]

Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players - View hand 1629484

UTG1 is loose fish since he obviously limps and MP1 is also whale which i believe never isolated anyone before, decided to flat call to keep UTG fish in pot also good odds to set mine , flop comes Q over so i check behind , after both fishes check behind twice i figure out none of them has a Q and i could extract some value from small PP's or bacdoor's like flushes or gutshots , turn is a good card for us again we can CHECK we can BET what would you prefer?


CO: $105.50
Hero (BTN): $114.05
SB: $82.10
BB: $44.70
UTG: $43.00
UTG+1: $103.55
MP1: $62.00
MP2: $101.50

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BTN with J J
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $1, MP1 raises to $3, 2 folds, Hero calls $3, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls $2

Flop: ($10.50) 7 Q 9 (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($10.50) Q (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $7, UTG+1 calls $7, MP1 calls $7

River: ($31.50) 3 (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero says "bet or not", MP1 says "not", Hero bets $7, UTG+1 calls $7, MP1 calls $7

Final Pot: $52.50

[amurophil]

think you can get away with betting between 8 on turn and 15-18 on the riv. hands played fine besides that.

[mg0698]

River isnt thin at all, its actually very standard, I'd bet about 20

[curve]

you are losing so much value here :/

[Elite Donk]

I don't play full ring(this is 6max forum) but id 3bet pre, as played though id bet flop and turn(though may be able to bet river also, not sure). As played i prob make it $24.

[stacksanchez]

Originally Posted by mg0698

River isnt thin at all, its actually very standard, I'd bet about 20

+1

[grumpygrandpa]

3bet pre i would.

turn & river betting for sure. I wouldn't bet 24 into 31. Maybe somewhere between 18-22$

[daveh07]

Betting $18 on the river.

[eldodo42]

Betting 15-20$ here too.

Expect to be called in at least one spot with something like pocket 8s, pocket tens, 9x, etc. . For fish, 9x has lots of showdown value here, since you "can't have a queen" (you checked behind on the flop, no, and there are two queens on the board besides), and given that you have a reasonably aggressive image, fish will explain to himself you're trying to buy the pot (and sometimes they'd actually be right -- the turn is a reasonably good spot to semibluff with a flush draw or straight draw, both of which miss on the river). For that reason, I don't think this is thin value at all -- it's almost a mandatory bet unless villains are uber-tricky. And for that reason, I'd also bet on the bigger side. 20$ is good. Depending on fish and history, you might be able to go even higher, and it might look even more bluffy;

[morc1us]

(this is 6max forum)

My apologies.

still i wont understand why everyone is betting so much vs fish do you really think he calls often with like low pair ? Myself i rarerly vbet fish so big so they call with even more crap also whenever anyone of them have an actual hand i pay them more. Any consideration that both fish are passive since they limp and second fish passively isolates 3bb they call and check the board twice , any information given on chat log ?

River: ($31.50) 3 (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, Hero says "bet or not", MP1 says "not", Hero bets $7, UTG+1 calls $7, MP1 calls $7

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Betting 15-20$ here too.

Expect to be called in at least one spot with something like pocket 8s, pocket tens, 9x, etc. . For fish, 9x has lots of showdown value here, since you "can't have a queen" (you checked behind on the flop, no, and there are two queens on the board besides), and given that you have a reasonably aggressive image, fish will explain to himself you're trying to buy the pot (and sometimes they'd actually be right -- the turn is a reasonably good spot to semibluff with a flush draw or straight draw, both of which miss on the river). For that reason, I don't think this is thin value at all -- it's almost a mandatory bet unless villains are uber-tricky. And for that reason, I'd also bet on the bigger side. 20$ is good. Depending on fish and history, you might be able to go even higher, and it might look even more bluffy;

I like your style well explained how i could extract most if i had aggro image, since im CC with JJ i usually dont have that image, but still nice thinking how to extract maximum by manipulating board texture.

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And last thought , what if we bet less to induce less folds and BOTH fish's to call with beaten hands ? If not both then at least one , if we bet 20 they could both fold or one of them calls hopefully if we bet like 10 they both calls or at least one of them calls since we bet less and there is higher chance them to call lightly.

[morc1us]

Final Pot: $52.50
Hero shows J J (two pair, Queens and Jacks)
MP1 shows A A (two pair, Aces and Queens)
MP1 wins $50.00
(Rake: $2.50)

[FocusIT]

Ye bet also. He plays TT and 9x the same way. Lots of value to be had here.

[eldodo42]

Well, I guess it might have been thin after all . What are villains' stats?

[morc1us]

well, I guess it might have been thin after all . What are villains' stats?

They both are loose passive, limping, isolating 3BB from early position , weird stack , typical loose fish , and the last read

Hero says "bet or not", MP1 says "not"

[riske]

he is never folding 9x even if you bet $20 ime.