This is a spot I'm having a lot of trouble, do you have any suggestions?
Consider SB a TAG with a 12% re-steal vs BTN(it's pretty STD, right?)
Hero is opening 50%, calling 50% of those hands, 4-betting polarized(AK+/QQ+, Axs and some Ao) and folding the rest

My thoughts on this kind of board is that villains in the microstakes usually cbet almost their entire range here, some guys check-call their JJ/QQ/weak Kx and check-raise AA/KK/TT/AK.

What should I do in these spots? If villain is cbetting like that, then should I raise his cbet a lot with my super weak holdings? If I have JJ here, is it fine to call OTF and fold OTT or at least call 2 barrels?

if we are raising all our garbage, then is it fine to float the flop with gutshots+ and try to take down later?

If we have JJ and villain cbets and checks the turn, we're checking back hoping for our SDV rather than denying his equity, right?
What if villain takes a bet-check-bet line?

Sorry if it's so many questions, I'm really bad in these spots, any ideas on this topic will help me a lot. Thanks.

PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 100 BB
SB: 385.56 BB
BB: 98 BB
UTG: 161.14 BB
MP: 125.3 BB
CO: 185.14 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Xy: Zw

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, SB raises to 10 BB, fold, Hero calls 7 BB

Flop: (21 BB, 2 players) K 3 T
SB bets 9.98 BB

3b vs btn if doing a 3b/fold strategy is generally like 14-18% of hands

K high monotone board is a good board for him and if we create a raising range it should be relatively narrow.

On the flop basically don't fold any pair, gutshot, or double backdoor (bdfd, bdsd). Because he made it half pot I'd only continue with my stronger double back doors.
If villain is betting entire range on flop he should be checking turns with a reasonable frequency.

We should 4b JJ pre.

Wouldn't talk about what to do on turns without knowing the turn first. One street at a time.

Depends on how wide BTN opens. If he opens like 55%+, I'd probably 3-bet 15%. Obviously if he's nitty and he opens around 30%, I'd 3-bet way way less.

We shouldn't really ever have a raising range on this texture when the SB has a huge range advantage. Also, given that he has one, I expect a lot of aggressive regs to barrel off on this board textures a decent amount since our range is so much weaker than his.

Vs a standard c-bet sizing like this on a dry board in a 3-bet pot, I'd probably start by floating all broadway draws and suited connectors that have a backdoor flush & straight draw. Bluffing turn if checked to. And I'm just calling down with the rest of my range, even sets and K10s, and folding whiffs.

JJ I call the first barrel. Turn is close, since we block straight draws he could be bluffing would. Would need to know his barreling frequencies. But yes, if he checks, I am checking back. I don't expect many players to b/c/b this type of board, but in general unless he's a fish, I'm folding river. This line is hardly a bluff and usually hands like KJo/KQo that want to pot control or traps like KK/1010 on such a dry board.

What is your fold to 3b vs SB? If you're 4-betting QQ/AK+, calling 50%, and folding the rest, you might be calling too wide vs a TAG 12% 3-bet, if I'm interpreting this correctly. That means your fold to 3-bet is around 40%?

Haha, posted right before I did. But yeah, this is pretty good. +1.

What are you doing with your mid-pairs (44-99)? I think calling with any pair is too loose. I'd probably call with 88/99 vs that small sizing and fold any lower pairs.

Given TAG 12% 3-bet range and general population to not 5-bet shove that wide for value/bluff, calling JJ pre is standard imo

4b pre very standard and I'm confident it'd be higher EV than flatting

@ OP, what is sample size for the SB 3b vs btn statistic? If it's a reg with not super nitty stats and he's 3b or fold in these spots his real 3b % is likely > 12

thanks for the input

about the raising range, I was suggesting using the top of our folding range, it's super exploitable, but so is someone cbetting 100% of their hands on this kind of boards.

I 4-bet JJ vs only people who are super out of the line(and they think I'm too), is 4-betting vs normal regs we don't have much history is fine? In steal dynamics ofc

I made an average of what I see in the games I play, people go from 7% to 20% re-steal, so I chose something in the middle, which is what I think is the range that gives me most trouble.

Let's consider he 3-bets-folds a decent part of his range, 5-bet-shove with some bluffs + AK/QQ and always slowplays KK/AA pre, also flatting some SCs vs the 4-bet. This is the tendency I see most people doing vs me in NL25-NL50.

real 3-bet % is 8 overall(guy 3-bets tight vs UTG/MP and wide vs LP)

53% in average, but that f3b is what I think I have when facing this kind of opponent, vs nits I fold probably 75%, even more vs guys with 1-2% 3-bet(yes, they exist lol).

Maybe in practice I give more respect to these people and fold some SCs, moving the fold to re-steal to around 45%, but I try to fold the least possible vs those aggro 3-bettors so people don't go nuts making a target out of me.

Villain can probably c-bet 100% on this texture, just not for this sizing. I'd imagine since we're in position the correct play is simply to float to turn somewhat wide.

4b pre with JJ is standard in these spots. I'd need a good reason not to.

Including how you got 12% 3b in these spots would have been informative. Considering we're already making massive assumptions I'd prefer to go with the standard play and just 4b pre.

Field sounds like whales?

The f3b is slightly high, but that's because you're opening wider (50% or more) so wouldn't sweat it much. Solid F3B in these spots is probably like 45%, but obviously will be higher if your exploitatively opening wider.

I don't adjust my calling ranges much vs people, but do adjust my 4b ranges. The logic of, "I try to fold the least possible vs. aggro 3-bettors so people don't go nuts making a target out of me." is quite flawed and needs to be remedied.

It's because it's ZOOM, people can get away with that, I've seen people with even 25% re-steal over 2k hands, but they were probably doing it only 10-12% vs me. Specially in bigger pools like in NL25, which reach 500 people playing there at some times of the day.

So if people see my f3b something like 75%, even nits will start re-stealing light and it will be tough for me to adjust, since we will be in the same spot 2-3 times per hour, now multiply that for each player in the pool.

Whenever I see someone folding 75%, I 3-bet ATC, I probably won't see that guy in the next hands, it's weird, but it's the dynamic that goes on there, some people go even further and 4-bet ATC vs someone who is 3-betting someone that should be 3-betted ATC lol.

Imagine if you get 3-betted 20 times in a row by 20 different nits. How are you supposed to know the range they're 3-betting you with?(if the number in their HUDs say it's around 4% re-steal).

it would take an eternity for my HUD to start adapting, it's one of the effects of playing in a large player pool in ZOOM. I made some tests in NL10 and played a super aggro style, re-stealing 35% and saw that people were still folding a lot(played 10k hands). The NL10 ZOOM pool had 1k players there. VS a 35% re-steal people were folding the same as people do in similar stakes vs 12%, but fewer people in the player pool.

You should just be playing solid --- deviate from the solid play when warranted. If there are two regs in the blinds I wouldn't open >50% unless they suck. Then you don't need to worry about f3b.

But, if you are deviating you're exploiting your opponents. Don't start flatting hands that are not profitable flats just to change your stats.

I did just run this in PIO and the SB does cbet basically 100% and we don't have a raising range fwiw.

hands like 44-55 are called at a low frequency (like 25-30%) and 66-77 at a higher freq. 88/99 100%

I gave SB a 3b range of 17.5% though.

thanks a lot for the help, man xD

is the cbet size something around 33%?

I gave it a c-bet size of 1/2p only for the flop. I'd have to give it more options to see which it would prefer.

So, brokenstars, this happens because the board hits villain's range more than it does to ours, right?

So making exploitative adjustments like having a 10% raise range(of crappy hands) on this board is mostly bad, right? By making it 25bb, we need it to work around 45% of the time.

Opened flopzilla and found out that if villain folds his midpairs + garbage to this raise, he will be folding 70%. If he calls with his gutshots + middle pairs, he will fold 32% only. If he flats his middle pairs and fold all his gutshots, then 43%.

So it's a bit optimistic to see villain folding JJ/QQ/Tx and gutshots to min-raises like that, right?

If the raise is to 30bb, we need 50% folds, but what about picking up BDFD/BDSD hands that don't block his folding range there to make this raise? Like 78s/56s/67s?

The idea here is that it's common to see these raises as crazy strong on these stakes. Ofc, someone with an aggressive image will have way less folds and more re-shoves coming from villain, but this board is so dry that villain's only draw that can shove is JQ.


This kind of move is very bad when we look at overall strategies, I know that, but what I'm trying to find here is some moves that can be used to exploit when you're able to get away with it. Because of its small frequency and likelihood of not being in the same spot with the same players.

I do stuff like that in 3-bet pots, but they mostly come from tilt/random plays, by looking closer into the situation, finding better hands for doing this kind of move, I think I should be able to control it better and have at least some kind of consistency there.

One last thing, is it fine to flat re-steals with 56s/67s/87s?

Yes, he has an equity advantage and a "nut" advantage (AK/AA)

Even if raising is profitable--is it more profitable?

You should be flatting 3bs in btn vs sb with all your SC.

I agree that 4bet JJ is superstandard bt vs sb against most regs, TT would be close though