Live game yesterday.

NL100 (1-1)

Villain BB - XX - 85BBs or so.
Hero CO - 99 - 100BBs

Table just formed so first hand w/ this Villain and no reads, other than from table talk he seems competent(ish).

I open in CO for 4BBs with 1 limper behind, he raises in BB to 12BBs. Limper folds. I call.

POT 26
Flop J 2 3 -

He bets 16BBs. I tank for 20 seconds –*call.

Turn 6.

POT 58

He leads for around 32BBs, committing himself to the pot, with less than half that behind.

Thinking it's an overbet if he's got an overpair, with a flush draw down, and thinking there's not a whole lot of jacks in his range, I go all in for the remaining 45BBs or so.

I clearly misplayed this – I was tired yesterday – but obviously at some point I'm meant to fold(?)

I'm wondering at what stage, so that we aren't exploitable/being too nitty. Do we fold pre, fold to a cbet on a missed board, call down on flops below a 9?

For those who think fold pre - how deep effective do we need to be to flat –*and when we miss after flatting, are we folding the flop unimproved?

Thoughts?

I don't know what the GTO play is, 2+2 book on NLH is just coming out this week, and should be in the mail. No Limit Hold'em For Advanced Players by Matthew Janda.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/33...janda-1660716/

Thanks. Am actually waiting on his other book on GTO in the mail!

Which book is that?

Typically I would say 4bb is too large for a cutoff raise but that depends on how often you are opening, the composition of your range and the opponents in the game.

The most basic way to think about this spot is to try and make villain indifferent to bluffing or checking with his bluffing hands (i.e. we call enough to pick off bluffs without over compensating villain's value hands).

So if we want to make villain's bluffs indifferent:

EV bluffs =F*P -(1-F)*B

Where:

F = our folding frequency
P = pot before bet
B = Bet size

So solve when this = 0
0 = F*P - B +F*B
0 = (P+B)*F - B
B/(P+B) = F

So if you fold more than a frequency of B/(P+B) then villain's bluffs make more money by betting than checking. That means you need to call with frequency 1-B/(P+B). That is idealized assuming villain's bluffs have 0 equity which is often not the case.

Probably shouldn't be shoving this hand. Not sure if you should have a shoving range at all.

Without knowing more about villain it's hard to say. Live players tend to be more passive so I would tend to fold in this spot pre but ymmv.

Folding pre would be a huge mistake.

Now, I could be wrong here, but I say flop call is good and then u gotta give up on the turn when he barrels. If he cbet w anything besides a J, overpair or flushdraw, then he really has to slow down on the turn in this spot. The exception is a lot of times really bad players will overplay an AK or AQ by just stacking off. But assuming he's thinking and u don't have a read to put him on that level, call flop and fold turn here.

But the flop call is good for sure cuz it's dry enough and u have enough equity vs his cbet range to float, then often times he checks turn and pot is urs unless he traps w overpairs there.

Villain 3 bet to 12 BB and is only 85 BB deep. We don't have enough behind to set mine and we're often put in spots like this where we're just throwing money in to fold later.

If we had more reads, if we were deeper or got 3 bet less pre, or this were online where aggression is more regular AND we'd be opening and getting 3bet to a more reasonable size then I would agree we couldn't fold pre.

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