what is level 3 ? please, tell me more

Considering and manipulating our perceived range as to extract extra profit from the villains range.

The perceived range is different to our actual range. We would be considering our actual range through the villains eyes. Considering how he perceives it.

This villain would not be very good at putting us on a range but he would still do it. By checking the turn, our perceived range becomes weak to this fish. We can then extract extra value or bluffs.

After reading your thought processes I surprisingly think you analyze poker hands the same as anyone else you just add extra layers of abstraction to organize your thoughts, that I personally think are irrelevant or overly complicated for actual decision making.

I'm interested to discuss which sections you feel are added? I think the way to apply the maths (at level 2) is different although I havnt perfected my understanding of the GTO thought process so its hard for me to be sure??

The main difference I note is that GTO players simply consider their actual range in place of their actual hand (when playing exploitatively). This massively complicates the calculation. I can guess at the benefits of doing this but the extra complications are huge lol.

... (Level 2 section is a couple of posts in)

ya def trolling around level 5

So you're just telling us all to exploit fish?

No I'm saying you always need consider your perceived range, even against fish.

I think regs have been doing that for a while.

This was in this thread, it's a very common misunderstanding.

post stars sn champ.

No it's not. It shouldn't be surprising to you that bad players don't care about our range or more often than not are totally off about our range. Every reg who 3 bets has AK until they don't so that the fish can convince himself to call. More fundamentally I'll explain why I don't like your specific line later in the thread based on the range I assign villain. I won't be able to do that until later in the day.

As far as your abstractions go we can start with any range you list as a 'pretend range' as something that I would consider unneccessarily complex and provides little to no utility. Just my opinion though. If it works for you and others to organize your thoughts there is nothing wrong with that, I just don't find it useful.

Yeah it's our job as a level 3 player to put ourselves in the villains shoes. If he thinks of our range wrong, we need to try to imagine in what wrong way it is he's thinking.

It's good to see you have moved onto disagreeing with level 4!
Level 4 isn't a factor often... Perhaps 'pretend range' is a bad name for the extra range, I usually call it a 'ghost range'... Call it what you will, if you are against a level 3 player, you will need to be able to calculate this level 4 range as to destroy him.

I think every reg already sort of does what you say, you've just made it overly complicated and can't explain it too well so it just sounds weird.

Never mind levels, this thread doesn't even get off the ground floor.

Just read your other thread too. kill me.

This post was started to talk about this specific hand but has be ruined by rambling discussion . In future any chance of sticking to discussing the hand in question, make your own posts if you want to talk about anything else.