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Old 06-12-2012, 05:51 PM   #16
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Re: J9s on BTN vs SB 3bet 100NL Zoom

calling or raising are both fine. your draw is so strong that you can call the turn as well i think.
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:59 PM   #17
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Re: J9s on BTN vs SB 3bet 100NL Zoom

i'd wait for a better spot
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:14 PM   #18
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Re: J9s on BTN vs SB 3bet 100NL Zoom

So I'm averaging like 33/29 but sometimes my stats go as high as 45/40 over 1000 hands. A nit like this will pick up data at the wrong time on Zoom tables and my stats may appear something like 42/37. I'm stealing on BTN every single time that is folded to me which shows as 60% on mine but it might show something like 85% on his HUD.

I think he probably viewed me as more of a maniac than a LAG.

So when he 3bets T7s here, I believe he is value/3betting vs my quite wide range on BTN steal, and he is correct btw since all my hands were 72o, J2o, 93o, K4o, and on and on.

However, when I flat it and play it for stacks, his range is now not looking so good. Equity wise preflop - mine 63% vs his 37%, flop - mine 59% vs his 41%, turn - mine 91% vs his 9%, and river mine 100% vs his 0%. So I never lost the lead at any point in the hand.

I kind of like playing loose because I get more action on my good hands.

I wanted to put the money in on the flop, so I raised big to force him to shove his hand. This did not work well because he almost folded. I think it took him 45 seconds to 3bet/shove his hand.

Can anyone think of a better raise size that forces him to shove that might look ambiguous and fos in his eyes? FOS = GTO in this case.

$0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players

Hero (BTN): $106.13 (106.1 bb)
SB: $175.76 (175.8 bb)
BB: $102.30 (102.3 bb)
UTG: $104.50 (104.5 bb)
MP: $75.23 (75.2 bb)
CO: $49 (49 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with J 9
3 folds, Hero raises to $3, SB raises to $10, BB folds, Hero calls $7

Flop: ($21) 8 T 2 (2 players)
SB bets $13, Hero raises to $47.54, SB raises to $165.76 and is all-in, Hero calls $48.59 and is all-in

Turn: ($213.26) 8 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
River: ($213.26) 5 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

Results: $213.26 pot ($2.80 rake)
Final Board: 8 T 2 8 5
Hero showed J 9 and won $210.46 ($104.33 net)
SB showed 7 T and lost (-$106.13 net)

I think I might have more than 15 outs here, I can hit J or runner runner 9 aside from 777, QQQQ, and spades. How many is that?
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:19 PM   #19
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Re: J9s on BTN vs SB 3bet 100NL Zoom

Don't think you played it well just because you managed to suck out. The flop is a fold. You just ended up on the far positive side of variance as he had the absolute bottom of his range AND you hit the cards you needed.

If you weren't a level you would also realize that sucking out and winning does not equal having made the right play.
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:30 PM   #20
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Re: J9s on BTN vs SB 3bet 100NL Zoom

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkeyFishFight View Post
Don't think you played it well just because you managed to suck out. The flop is a fold. You just ended up on the far positive side of variance as he had the absolute bottom of his range AND you hit the cards you needed.

If you weren't a level you would also realize that sucking out and winning does not equal having made the right play.
I did play this hand very well indeed. I played it perfectly.

You lie, if you called the 3bet and saw this flop texture. You will play it in some ways.

You are just trolling now.

Last edited by CombatCarl; 06-12-2012 at 10:59 PM. Reason: changed content
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:49 PM   #21
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Re: J9s on BTN vs SB 3bet 100NL Zoom

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkeyFishFight View Post
Don't think you played it well just because you managed to suck out. The flop is a fold. You just ended up on the far positive side of variance as he had the absolute bottom of his range AND you hit the cards you needed.

If you weren't a level you would also realize that sucking out and winning does not equal having made the right play.
You keep saying "The flop is a fold" and I absolutely, all the way, altogether, competently, comprehensively, conclusively, effectively, en masse, exclusively, exhaustively, extensively, finally, from A to Z, from beginning to end, fully, heart and soul, hook line and sinker, in all, in entirety, in full, in toto, on all counts, painstakingly, perfectly, quite, solidly, thoroughly, to the end, to the limit, to the max, to the nth degree, totally, ultimately, unabridged, unanimously, unconditionally, undividedly, utterly, wholly, without omission, profoundly, entirely, exactly, extremely, fully, just, plumb, purely, totally, well, wholly DISAGREE with you.

In fact, you are starting to tilt me like a monkey on crack. Please stop. I am now losing because of you. Yes I lost a few buy ins since you started this non sense.

Last edited by CombatCarl; 06-12-2012 at 11:10 PM. Reason: mistake
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Old 06-13-2012, 12:07 AM   #22
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Re: J9s on BTN vs SB 3bet 100NL Zoom

Just in the unlikely case you aren't trolling donkeyfishfight, you do realise that we're flipping against a range of sets+overpairs on the flop?
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Old 06-13-2012, 12:14 AM   #23
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Why would you want to flip for a stack? You can find so many better spots at SSNL. Unless you just love variance I guess.
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Old 06-13-2012, 12:24 AM   #24
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Re: J9s on BTN vs SB 3bet 100NL Zoom

Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverLearning View Post
Just in the unlikely case you aren't trolling donkeyfishfight, you do realise that we're flipping against a range of sets+overpairs on the flop?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkeyFishFight View Post
Don't think you played it well just because you managed to suck out. The flop is a fold. You just ended up on the far positive side of variance as he had the absolute bottom of his range AND you hit the cards you needed.

If you weren't a level you would also realize that sucking out and winning does not equal having made the right play.
95,040 games 0.002 secs 47,520,000 games/sec

Board: 8c Ts 2s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 56.039% 55.81% 00.23% 53045 214.00 { Js9s }
Hand 1: 43.961% 43.74% 00.23% 41567 214.00 { 88+, ATs, KTs, QTs, JTs, T7s+, ATo, KTo, QTo, JTo, T8o+ }

Never mind, I think I know what's going on now. He is not trolling.

Yes, I should have folded preflop and postflop.

And I'm sorry that I sucked out on you.

Let's play again sometimes? Friends?
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Old 06-13-2012, 12:27 AM   #25
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Re: J9s on BTN vs SB 3bet 100NL Zoom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser. View Post
Why would you want to flip for a stack? You can find so many better spots at SSNL. Unless you just love variance I guess.
Yes, it's a bad idea. This is poker not bingo.

I butchered this hand end of story.

Let's forget this thread and move on.

Please.

In fact, Moderator please close or delete this thread.
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Old 06-13-2012, 01:02 AM   #26
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Re: J9s on BTN vs SB 3bet 100NL Zoom

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser. View Post
Why would you want to flip for a stack? You can find so many better spots at SSNL. Unless you just love variance I guess.
My point was merely about not folding. But yes I would certainly "flip" for stack in that situation, I see it more like a valueshove really
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Old 06-13-2012, 02:22 AM   #27
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Re: J9s on BTN vs SB 3bet 100NL Zoom

your hand is pretty good on the flop...good enough to raise
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:02 AM   #28
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Re: J9s on BTN vs SB 3bet 100NL Zoom

raise flop 80%, call 20% randomly
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:52 AM   #29
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Re: J9s on BTN vs SB 3bet 100NL Zoom

carl you post a million standardish hands and ask for advice. honestly this should be laughed out of microstakes, so when you post it here with 100 other hands this week that the average reg navigates in his sleep, people are going to eventually get tired of it.

you do make a point to post in other people's threads, but you really need to try to be more selective about which hands you post. this spot is really, really, really dull.
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Old 06-13-2012, 05:09 AM   #30
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Re: J9s on BTN vs SB 3bet 100NL Zoom

Pre is an easy fold.

Postflop, we have at least 3 options and it is pretty much villain dependent which option is best. All options seem to be quite close in EV though.
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