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Help with three or four betting pre-flop Help with three or four betting pre-flop

08-21-2016 , 05:02 PM
Villain has been playing fairly aggressive at 1-3. He opens MP to $13. I look down at A/K. Are you always three betting A/K or is it a feel type thing. I flatted and one other flatted. This game usually had 3-4 people calling any standard open to $13-$15. Often times playing any two cards.
As it turns out opponent opened with A-8 suited and hit flush on turn. Other player also called with A/K.

Trying to work on being more aggressive. This is one area of my game where I still am not sure as to when to flat or when to three or even four bet. When it works you can stack people, but I am losing some like this one where maybe a strong three bet chases him out.

I am mostly asking about when I hold premium hands QQ-AA and AK or possibly AQ.
08-21-2016 , 06:55 PM
This is an extremely situational question...

To answer your specific question, with the information that you've given (an aggressive player opens in MP with a standard raise and it folds to me with AK), I will always 3bet. You almost always have a better hand than him, so you're happy to get more money in the pot. If he calls - great, you got more money in with a good situation. If he folds - great, you won money. If you simply call and then 2 other players join...now you're in a difficult situation post flop. Suppose you flop top pair in a 4 way pot. Are you confident that you're ahead of 3 other players?

As a (very) general rule of thumb, the very LEAST you should be 3betting with is QQ+ and AK. It sounds like you're playing 1/3 live, where I would suggest you 3bet JJ+ and AQ+ for value. It sounds like you're relatively new, so start there and then you can experiment with some more fun 3betting hands like suited connectors.

I can think of two situations (off the top of my head) where you might not want to 3bet a hand like AK. First, against a super nit who raised preflop - as in, his entire preflop raising range is QQ+. And second, suppose UTG raises and it folds to you in the BB. Sometimes it can be profitable to disguise a hand like KK or AA by flat calling if you know there are going to be 3 or fewer players in the pot if you simply call.

The short answer is that you should be 3betting AK most of the time. In this situation, we're getting pot control in position and we're getting more money in with a premium hand.
08-21-2016 , 07:11 PM
In this situation I'd always be 3-betting. Make your sizing larger if you're OOP.

What is making you play hands like this cautiously?
08-21-2016 , 09:03 PM
What is making you play hands like this cautiously?[/QUOTE]

I think its trying to control pot size and probably scared of getting stacked. I know if I play cautious I can usually walk away a winner. However I think I ma preventing the large wins by being too cautious. Good question and thanks for the advice.
08-21-2016 , 09:57 PM
There are so many variables that it's difficult to say. There aren't really any situations in poker where you're doing something all the time.

It depends on the type of player you're against, it depends on your position at the table, it depends on how you want to extract value. With AK (as with pretty much every hand) I'm looking to thin the field and extract value. I agree that you'll usually go multiway to the flop with a standard $12 or $13 raise at 1/3, but in my experience, three betting thins the field quite a bit in these games, and you'll often get someone to call you with a hand you have dominated like AQ or KQ. So, especially against an aggressive player, I'm three betting AK in every position almost all the time. With QQ-AA I'm three betting against any opponent in every position almost all the time.

We raise to extract value, thin the field and gain information. You're losing value if you're not three betting these hands.
08-22-2016 , 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by decoop99
I think its trying to control pot size and probably scared of getting stacked.
You should never be scared of getting stacked -- as long as you're making +EV choices.

Here's one more thing to keep in mind re: pot control -- playing bigger pots preflop actually helps you win more often (not just more $, but more often) with hands like AK/QQ+.

Think about it -- AK in a heads up pot is SIGNIFICANTLY stronger than AK in a multiway pot. Plus, when you 3bet you narrow your opponents' playable range, which helps you play the hand correctly more often.

I'm a bit sleep deprived but I hope this makes sense. Sounds like you're on the right track
08-22-2016 , 08:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benzooor
You should never be scared of getting stacked -- as long as you're making +EV choices.

Here's one more thing to keep in mind re: pot control -- playing bigger pots preflop actually helps you win more often (not just more $, but more often) with hands like AK/QQ+.

Think about it -- AK in a heads up pot is SIGNIFICANTLY stronger than AK in a multiway pot. Plus, when you 3bet you narrow your opponents' playable range, which helps you play the hand correctly more often.

I'm a bit sleep deprived but I hope this makes sense. Sounds like you're on the right track
Makes total sense! Thanks so much for the encouragement. I often forget about your first statement and play scared. Got to get rid of tat leak.

      
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