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Old 07-02-2012, 09:08 PM   #1
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To flat or not to flat 200NL Zoom

I was playing 29.4/26.2/af4.46/3bet7.5 Fold to 3bet 66 882 hands

HJ is 21/16/af2.4/3bet6.4 Fold to 3bet 20 269 hands

SB is 24/21/af1.3/3bet12.7 SB 3bet 20.0 Squeeze 40 122 hands

I think folding preflop is perfectly fine but how about against these two particular villains? I think they both have some interesting preflop stats even though their sample size is kind of small.

We do have position and we are closing the action.

Poker Stars, $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players

Hero (BTN): $433.43 (216.7 bb)
SB: $220.47 (110.2 bb)
BB: $231.01 (115.5 bb)
UTG: $559.92 (280 bb)
MP: $200 (100 bb)
CO: $158.17 (79.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with 3 3
UTG folds, MP raises to $6, CO folds, Hero calls $6, SB raises to $26, BB folds, MP calls $20, Hero ???
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Old 07-02-2012, 09:17 PM   #2
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Re: To flat or not to flat 200NL Zoom

the bit you coded in red about there f3b and sqeeze how many samples dont look alot.

if its decent i prob just jam given the dead money in the pot, or fold. Calling dont look good for 26bb, if its a 7xx flop and someone just jams AK we fold, making a mistake
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Old 07-02-2012, 09:31 PM   #3
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Re: To flat or not to flat 200NL Zoom

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Originally Posted by PeoplesElbow View Post
the bit you coded in red about there f3b and sqeeze how many samples dont look alot.

if its decent i prob just jam given the dead money in the pot, or fold. Calling dont look good for 26bb, if its a 7xx flop and someone just jams AK we fold, making a mistake
SB's stats says this SB 3bet 20.0(20) Squeeze 40.0(5)

What's (20) and (5) mean?
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Old 07-03-2012, 01:26 AM   #4
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Re: To flat or not to flat 200NL Zoom

Anyway, I decide to flat preflop and I hit my middle set.

They both check so I go for pot size VB making it look like a take down bet after two checks but SB snaps it.

Turn is a ooops moment since some of his premium suited range got there like AJss. What do we do on turn?

Poker Stars, $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players

Hero (BTN): $433.43 (216.7 bb)
SB: $220.47 (110.2 bb)
BB: $231.01 (115.5 bb)
UTG: $559.92 (280 bb)
MP: $200 (100 bb)
CO: $158.17 (79.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with 3 3
UTG folds, MP raises to $6, CO folds, Hero calls $6, SB raises to $26, BB folds, MP calls $20, Hero calls $20

Flop: ($80) 2 Q 3 (3 players)
SB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $77.20, SB calls $77.20, MP folds

Turn: ($234.40) 9 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero ???

Would you rather size VB differently on flop?
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Old 07-03-2012, 03:10 AM   #5
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Re: To flat or not to flat 200NL Zoom

I think flatting pre is -EV even multiway, could be wrong about that though.

Can't imagine doing anything else but jamming turn, flop bet is still too big even if you want to make it look bluffy imo. Feels like if we have a bluffing range here, we would want to be able to bluff cheaper, which is why this might be interpreted as what it is (value). Still seems like you got him hooked now so, good job.
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Old 07-03-2012, 03:26 AM   #6
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Usually you want to be able to put in 12x of the amount you call preflop when you flop a set so fold pre, but it's pretty close imo, call isn't too bad.
As played I would bet again.
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Old 07-03-2012, 04:07 AM   #7
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Re: To flat or not to flat 200NL Zoom

Are you guys making money when calling 22-66 hands to single raises pre-flop heads-up in position? In tough games I think I get squeezed too often / hard to get to showdown / good players don't stack off when I hit a set v often.
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Old 07-03-2012, 04:39 AM   #8
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Re: To flat or not to flat 200NL Zoom

With SB and his squeeze so high, I would have prefered to have 3-bet the 33 myself. Just calling the raise is asking for a squeeze. From then on, I would 4-bet the squeezer or fold. Calling is not an option on the long run. SB raised 13 BB and only has 100 BB left.
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Old 07-03-2012, 04:41 AM   #9
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Re: To flat or not to flat 200NL Zoom

do you flop sets in every hand you play
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Old 07-03-2012, 05:42 AM   #10
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Re: To flat or not to flat 200NL Zoom

WTF flop sizing?

Turn you have like half a PSB what else are we going to do?
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Old 07-03-2012, 06:08 AM   #11
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Re: To flat or not to flat 200NL Zoom

haven't done the math on it, but my instinct is youre gonna struggle to overcall profitably

not sure why you think a PSB with our range here is good in any way...? SPR's are shallow, squeezer never has a hand better than QJ, MP very rarely has anything, and from the looks of it youre flatting relatively wide.... why would you want to bet big?

as played just yam the turn
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Old 07-03-2012, 07:22 AM   #12
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Re: To flat or not to flat 200NL Zoom

Quote:
Originally Posted by AshleyC View Post
Are you guys making money when calling 22-66 hands to single raises pre-flop heads-up in position? In tough games I think I get squeezed too often / hard to get to showdown / good players don't stack off when I hit a set v often.
i've just run the filter to check that:
hero's position: MP,CO,BTN
hole cards: 22-66
did cold call: true

maybe it's too small of a sample to tell, but it looks close to be BE/slightly losing?



same filter with 54s-T9s, but the sample is meaningless

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Old 07-03-2012, 07:34 AM   #13
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Re: To flat or not to flat 200NL Zoom

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Originally Posted by B1ingB1angB1aow View Post
WTF flop sizing?

Turn you have like half a PSB what else are we going to do?
this obv
flop sizing is horrendous
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:18 AM   #14
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Re: To flat or not to flat 200NL Zoom

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Originally Posted by riske View Post
I think flatting pre is -EV even multiway, could be wrong about that though.

Can't imagine doing anything else but jamming turn, flop bet is still too big even if you want to make it look bluffy imo. Feels like if we have a bluffing range here, we would want to be able to bluff cheaper, which is why this might be interpreted as what it is (value). Still seems like you got him hooked now so, good job.
This is a very good point. I am capable of bluffing big in a spot like this one so I can bet 3/5-3/4 pot with bluff but I pretty much have never made a pot size VB bluff in history. So yeah, if someone is paying attention, it is in fact pretty easy to see or guess that my bet size on flop is for true value.
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Old 07-03-2012, 10:40 AM   #15
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Re: To flat or not to flat 200NL Zoom

why on earth would you pot this flop...

obv jamming turn nothing else you can do
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