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AK in a vacuum AK in a vacuum

01-23-2015 , 06:17 PM
Very generic situation that just occurred and I wanted thoughts on it. Playing Bovada $100NL, both me and villain just sat down with 100 BB. Couple of hands in, I raise in CO with AK to 3 BB, he 3 bets to 9 BB. In general what do you guys do here? Flat OOP or 4B/call shove? Remember this situation is completely independent of villain in this particular case...
01-23-2015 , 06:33 PM
I could maybe see flatting if you opened from MP and he 3 bet from HJ or CO, but in a steal vs resteal spot and especially OOP Im just gonna 4 bet and call it off if he ships it.
01-23-2015 , 07:34 PM
I´d say that you should 4bet like always intending to get it in. Fold-Equity and Pot-Equity against villain´s shoving range make it profitable. Sure we might construct a theoretical villain against whom flatting might be more profitable but this is just too far from realism and therefore not practicable. You´re out of position with a hand that has a lot of equity but other than a hand that connects with a lot of textures (like JTs) AK is much more effective against villain´s check-down range postflop and not his bet-bet range. It´s tough to realize its equity when oop
01-23-2015 , 11:40 PM
I like flatting with QQ-88 because it's easier to check/call vs a polarized range OOP than with AK. Theoretically, it makes sense to flat AK because you want to keep in worse hands, but it's going to be hard to protect your equity share in the pot. Playing OOP, you can make a lot of theoretical mistakes like folding the best hand to turn barrels, or putting a whole bunch of money in bad when your opponent has a pair.

Imagine villain is 3-betting 68s as a bluff. You 4-bet and he snap folds 10/10 times and his 68s has 0% equity. Whenever you flat OOP, now the 86s has 39.7% equity
01-24-2015 , 12:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisBowling
I like flatting with QQ-88 because it's easier to check/call vs a polarized range OOP than with AK.
How so?
Agreed with rest of your post.
01-24-2015 , 01:01 AM
I play on 100nl on Bovada.

4bet and gii OOP readless
01-24-2015 , 01:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverLearning
How so?
Agreed with rest of your post.
Well it depends on the stack sizes/and type of villain of course, but the more linear my opponent is, the more I want to 4-bet/fold. The more polarized, the more I want to call. If my opponent is 3-betting hands like A7s, K4s, ATo, then I def want to flat QQ/JJ, maybe call with TT if the odds is close, and fold 88-99 without odds. But if my opponent is really polarized and 3betting too many weak stuff (like K5o, A2o), then I don't mind playing the c/c game with 88+.
01-24-2015 , 02:01 AM
umm ok but why is it easier to check/call with QQ-88 than with AK?
01-24-2015 , 02:26 AM
Not 4betting QQ in CO is a fairly big leak
01-24-2015 , 02:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverLearning
umm ok but why is it easier to check/call with QQ-88 than with AK?
His bluffs have less equity vs QQ than AK. You make money in poker by your opponent "making mistakes". I think its a lot easier to make mistakes with AK than with QQ postflop, c/c'ing OOP. The reason why, its just a lot harder to get to showdown with AK than QQ. QQ can stand more heat. Their draws will have less outs if your c/c'ing QQ than AK.

Say btn villain 3bets your CO raise with T6, expecting you to fold a lot. If the flop comes down 783, and you c/c both and the turn comes a J, its easier to c/c QQ than AK. Even if you do c/c AK on the J turn, your not going to be turning your hand into a bluff on river. Your just going to be checking, hoping that he checks. If your opponent spikes a pair of 6's or T's on the river, he can just check back. If he misses, there will be a ton of rivers where you just fold the best hand.
01-24-2015 , 03:26 AM
If you think he has hands like T6s in his range then it is definitely a mistake not to 4bet QQ
01-24-2015 , 03:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisBowling
His bluffs have less equity vs QQ than AK. You make money in poker by your opponent "making mistakes". I think its a lot easier to make mistakes with AK than with QQ postflop, c/c'ing OOP. The reason why, its just a lot harder to get to showdown with AK than QQ. QQ can stand more heat. Their draws will have less outs if your c/c'ing QQ than AK.

Say btn villain 3bets your CO raise with T6, expecting you to fold a lot. If the flop comes down 783, and you c/c both and the turn comes a J, its easier to c/c QQ than AK. Even if you do c/c AK on the J turn, your not going to be turning your hand into a bluff on river. Your just going to be checking, hoping that he checks. If your opponent spikes a pair of 6's or T's on the river, he can just check back. If he misses, there will be a ton of rivers where you just fold the best hand.
It's true for QQ but not so much for 88. I'd much prefer bluffcatching with AK than with 88 on T52. We block AA and KK, have more equity when behind and can cooler villain when we both hit an A or a K.
01-24-2015 , 06:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricedaddy
Very generic situation that just occurred and I wanted thoughts on it. Playing Bovada $100NL, both me and villain just sat down with 100 BB. Couple of hands in, I raise in CO with AK to 3 BB, he 3 bets to 9 BB. In general what do you guys do here? Flat OOP or 4B/call shove? Remember this situation is completely independent of villain in this particular case...
QQ+ AK standard range in this situation for jamming.
jamming a good range u can add more 4bet/fold combos
01-24-2015 , 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brokenstars
I play on 100nl on Bovada.

4bet and gii OOP readless
What's the worst hand you 4!/GII here? N what do you expect to see villain show up with? I may be totally too tight in these situations, as I usually don't 4! AK on Bovada, unless it's bvb, and even then only vs an aggro tard. I feel I.run into premiums or am flipping with 99 or whatever.

On a site like Bovada is it wrong to avoid these "flips" for stacks when so many other chances to get money with bigger edge
01-24-2015 , 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudPacquiao
What's the worst hand you 4!/GII here? N what do you expect to see villain show up with? I may be totally too tight in these situations, as I usually don't 4! AK on Bovada, unless it's bvb, and even then only vs an aggro tard. I feel I.run into premiums or am flipping with 99 or whatever.

On a site like Bovada is it wrong to avoid these "flips" for stacks when so many other chances to get money with bigger edge

If we gii the worst hand I expect to see is AK. Readless, the worst hand I gii with is AKo.

The only reason to avoid a high variance +EV spot is due to bankroll conditions.
01-24-2015 , 08:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brokenstars
If we gii the worst hand I expect to see is AK. Readless, the worst hand I gii with is AKo.

The only reason to avoid a high variance +EV spot is due to bankroll conditions.
So Basically our money is coming from fold equity right? So I assume u ship QQ, but JJ and AQ you would flat?

Also your advice is for steal v resteal, or u GII in other positions with AK?

Btw not questioning your strategy, just picking your brain for a second
01-25-2015 , 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudPacquiao
So Basically our money is coming from fold equity right? So I assume u ship QQ, but JJ and AQ you would flat?

Also your advice is for steal v resteal, or u GII in other positions with AK?

Btw not questioning your strategy, just picking your brain for a second
i'm going to go with a: yes.
01-26-2015 , 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krisssss
QQ+ AK standard range in this situation for jamming.
jamming a good range u can add more 4bet/fold combos
I would add JJ here as standard CO vs BT

      
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