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Old 05-14-2017, 05:59 AM   #1
Minatorr
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Join Date: Oct 2016
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200NL Small Full House OTR vs Fish

A little unsure on the entire hand. How would you guys approach this?

I didn't want to valueown myself OTF vs J10/22, and I thought he might find a fold with J9-/QJ/KJ if I just started piling money in on a blank runout even though he's a fish. Vs a mega whale, which I think are pretty uncommon nowadays esp at low/mid-stakes, I'm probably just piling in money ASAP. I also don't really have any 3b bluffs here on this board texture. I think J10/22 are mandatory reraises on this flop though.

OTT, I think in hindsight I should have definitely raised. His most likely holding is Jx, and sometimes diamond draws/KQ that are probably not folding to a raise.

OTR, after tanking and using my time bank, I think the river jam was the most optimal vs the fish. I never have any bluffs here. But I don't think a fish is ever folding Jx/KQ/87dd when I take this line & diamonds miss.

On another note, what do you do if you instead had J8- in this hand??

PokerStars - $2 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 111.62 BB (VPIP: 24.42, PFR: 16.28, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 88)
SB: 27.58 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 18.06, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 75)
Hero (BB): 115.1 BB
UTG: 230.9 BB (VPIP: 28.95, PFR: 26.32, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 38)
MP: 217.05 BB (VPIP: 47.37, PFR: 34.21, 3Bet Preflop: 11.76, Hands: 78)
CO: 105.19 BB (VPIP: 35.42, PFR: 20.83, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 48)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 2 J

fold, fold, CO calls 1 BB, fold, SB calls 0.5 BB, Hero checks

Flop: (3 BB, 3 players) J 2 T
SB checks, Hero bets 2 BB, CO raises to 4 BB, fold, Hero calls 2 BB

Turn: (11 BB, 2 players) J
Hero checks, CO bets 7.14 BB, Hero calls 7.14 BB

River: (25.28 BB, 2 players) 9
Hero checks, CO bets 13.98 BB, Hero raises to 102.96 BB and is all-in, CO calls 79.07 BB and is all-in

Last edited by Minatorr; 05-14-2017 at 06:09 AM.
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Old 05-15-2017, 08:31 AM   #2
mucknuts
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Re: 200NL Small Full House OTR vs Fish

Not raising flop seems pretty bad to me. There'll be easily enough worse value hands/overplayed hands/random spazziness that can continue, so you're better off putting more money in rather than losing value because you're scared of being cold decked. Adjust on later streets sure, but flop is a time to build the pot and seize the initiative with what should be the best hand vs a fish.

Turn should be a raise too.
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Old 05-15-2017, 09:22 AM   #3
Yacht67
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Re: 200NL Small Full House OTR vs Fish

I think I would do the same thing you would. I would just let villain spew off chips. I'd be happy going all in here. I would prefer next time to maybe raise the turn so we can start building the pot bigger so it is easy to get stacks in on the river. On the river villain bets 13.98 into $25. Getting him to call off your stack was a bit lucky IMO. If we raised on the turn getting stacks in would be pretty simple going forward.
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Old 05-15-2017, 09:27 AM   #4
Minatorr
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Re: 200NL Small Full House OTR vs Fish

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yacht67 View Post
I think I would do the same thing you would. I would just let villain spew off chips. I'd be happy going all in here. I would prefer next time to maybe raise the turn so we can start building the pot bigger so it is easy to get stacks in on the river. On the river villain bets 13.98 into $25. Getting him to call off your stack was a bit lucky IMO. If we raised on the turn getting stacks in would be pretty simple going forward.
Yeah, another reason that I called here was that I thought I could get my opponent to make more mistakes on later streets. Overvaluing Jx, overvaluing 10x he decided to probe raise that he would otherwise fold to a reraise. Spew chips with random hands/bluffs. I can't say for sure flatting > 3betting flop here, but I had multiple reasons for flatting flop.

I have no idea why I just flatted this turn to be honest. I was studying for some uni midterm that day as well & was quite tired. I don't think I gave this turn call much thought iirc.

Last edited by Minatorr; 05-15-2017 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 05-15-2017, 09:29 AM   #5
Minatorr
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Re: 200NL Small Full House OTR vs Fish

Quote:
Originally Posted by mucknuts View Post
Not raising flop seems pretty bad to me. There'll be easily enough worse value hands/overplayed hands/random spazziness that can continue, so you're better off putting more money in rather than losing value because you're scared of being cold decked. Adjust on later streets sure, but flop is a time to build the pot and seize the initiative with what should be the best hand vs a fish.

Turn should be a raise too.
Huh? Where did I ever even imply I'm scared of being cold-decked at all? If I'm stuffing in almost a BI with Q high as a river bluff-jam, what makes you think I'm scared of being cold-decked by some random fish?

It's just that given his stats and playing, I think he's fishy but not a complete whale that would donate his stack to me with Jx here on most runouts if I 3b this flop & start going nuts. You'd be surprised. Even the bad players at low/mid-stakes have a fold button nowadays.

On this exact turn, I agree that this should have been a raise. I was really tired at this moment and had other decisions in other hands, and probably didn't give it too much thought.
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Old 05-15-2017, 11:18 AM   #6
mucknuts
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Re: 200NL Small Full House OTR vs Fish

Yeah i think overall fish have improved a lot, but I think the JTxdd flop texture is pretty key here for getting called down or jammed on lighter than usual. I think $16-19 otf is best, big but not so big that he can't jam on us with Jx/overpairs/draws and have perceived fold equity.

You mentioned "not wanting to value town myself OTF vs J10/22", kinda read that into you not wanting to be cold decked, sorry if i got the wrong end of the stick. Think these make up a small portion of his overall continuing range though and vs a 35/20 we can in general be more active in simply shovelling money in when we're ahead of their range. Can never discount the random factor vs these guys.
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