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Old 06-13-2012, 07:33 PM   #1
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100NL: Turned toppair+FD after c-r bluff

Villain was 15/9 over 240 hands with 56% cbet. Looking back, he probably isn't super tight from the BT, he probably opens atleast what most people open on the CO, so i prefer 3bet/folding for value pre-flop.

I perhaps should have folded flop lol, but what should i do on turn?
If i bet, i overrep my hand a bit and am almost bluffing i think, so i think check/folding or c/cing are better options. If i c/c, iv no idea what to do on any river card, for that reason am i better off just check-folding turn expecting him to check down worse?

$0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 4 Players

CO: $108.50 (108.5 bb)
BTN: $113.45 (113.5 bb)
Hero (SB): $119.91 (119.9 bb)
BB: $100 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q A
CO folds, BTN raises to $3, Hero calls $2.50, BB folds

Flop: ($7) J 7 T (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $3, Hero raises to $10, BTN calls $7

Turn: ($27) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $10.50, Hero?
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:10 PM   #2
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Re: 100NL: Turned toppair+FD after c-r bluff

Fundamentally, you should prob not be x/r the flop if you don't know what's calling you or how to proceed if you improve. As played b/f $18. He still has good draws that you need to protect against and checking is really murky because he can have lots of better hands+you don't know if he'll turn aforementioned draws into bluffs.

I agree you should 3b pre.
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Old 06-13-2012, 08:17 PM   #3
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Re: 100NL: Turned toppair+FD after c-r bluff

3bet. Flop looks good, though I also think leading is cool. Obv anything other than check fold is okay on the flop, but I quite like taking the initiative. Betting the turn is the most obvious option but check call is also okay. What's your question now you've checked? You can't fold.
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:45 PM   #4
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Re: 100NL: Turned toppair+FD after c-r bluff

OOP call and re-evaluate river. As played 3 bet pre, but we know this already. Alot of rivers we can call but I prefer leading this turn with the plan to bet/fold on the turn
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:55 PM   #5
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Re: 100NL: Turned toppair+FD after c-r bluff

LOL, I know what oldjude from PS would do. Hero CRAI on turn.

Do you like that line? That's the line of a decent professional. Done it to me many times.

I actually like it so do that.

edit: You forget to 3bet preflop. oldjude for instance, 3bets that hand.

I think it's check/call for you instead.
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Old 06-14-2012, 04:34 AM   #6
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Re: 100NL: Turned toppair+FD after c-r bluff

I really have no idea wtf you did on the flop esp. With pre call. So yeah, have fun with that.

Be happy he bet 10.5 now. Be sad when he bets the river every time.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:45 AM   #7
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Re: 100NL: Turned toppair+FD after c-r bluff

I like the idea of leading the flop.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:50 AM   #8
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Re: 100NL: Turned toppair+FD after c-r bluff

Quote:
Originally Posted by shark_fishin View Post
I like the idea of leading the flop.
My nemesis goes 3bet preflop, bomb flop, and CRAI on turn.

That's right donk flop, I think it is very important if you wanna take this line.

But I don't think you wanna CRAI on turn. I think he is nuts.

May be CR normal or lead turn is more sane.
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Old 06-15-2012, 05:50 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CombatCarl View Post
My nemesis goes 3bet preflop, bomb flop, and CRAI on turn.

That's right donk flop, I think it is very important if you wanna take this line.

But I don't think you wanna CRAI on turn. I think he is nuts.

May be CR normal or lead turn is more sane.
Batman??

b/f the turn, 3b pre depends on more stats/ a read(flat as a default vs this guy)
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:39 AM   #10
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Re: 100NL: Turned toppair+FD after c-r bluff

i 3b/fold preflop and take a passive line postflop. i don't wanna blow the pot out of proportion with no reads whatsoever and we are getting decent odds + drawing to the nuts. as played i probably bet the turn myself. with c/c we're freerolling negatively ..
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:34 AM   #11
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Re: 100NL: Turned toppair+FD after c-r bluff

If a nitty villain w 58% cbet is cbetting this particular flop, he's not folding to a CR. You have decent equity vs a lot of hands so I chk/call flop vs most people.

Problem is that if you have no idea how he plays, you're playing the guessing game. What do you do when a diamond comes and he bets big? What do you do when an A or Q comes and he keeps betting? There's basically 3 good cards for your hand, all K with the exception of the Kd as you're not getting any value if that card comes.

The more I think about it, you can consider just c/folding flop vs this opponent.

edit: I could be completely wrong. Interesting hand for sure. More opinions please.
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:01 AM   #12
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Re: 100NL: Turned toppair+FD after c-r bluff

Quote:
Originally Posted by fussie View Post
If a nitty villain w 58% cbet is cbetting this particular flop, he's not folding to a CR. You have decent equity vs a lot of hands so I chk/call flop vs most people.

Problem is that if you have no idea how he plays, you're playing the guessing game. What do you do when a diamond comes and he bets big? What do you do when an A or Q comes and he keeps betting? There's basically 3 good cards for your hand, all K with the exception of the Kd as you're not getting any value if that card comes.

The more I think about it, you can consider just c/folding flop vs this opponent.

edit: I could be completely wrong. Interesting hand for sure. More opinions please.
Good points, i agree.
Though.. If im gonna be leading my value hands here since it's bad cbet bluff board and his low cbet%, then idk if i need to be balanced or how balanced and lead as a bluff still? I do like the idea of c/fing this hand though..
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Old 06-15-2012, 10:28 AM   #13
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Re: 100NL: Turned toppair+FD after c-r bluff

Leading is just going to put you in the same ****ty spot. People react very differently to donkbets. Some ppl float really wide, some ppl bluffraise,...

If you give him the initiative, you can at least deduce that he has *some* piece of this board given his nittyness and low cbet.

Lets say you donk and he calls. An A or Q comes, what do you do now without info? You could bet again and totally value-own yourself. How do you play river? What do you do if he raises the turnbet? You can't semibluffjam, hoping he's spazzing vs your donk.

What do you do on a blank turn? His turn calling range is the same as his flop calling range if the board doesn't change and we have A high.

And any AKQ98 is going to improve your hand equitywise, but its also going to improve his flop calling range.

I am not good enough to play these hands OOP, without reads. Therefore, I fold flop.
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Old 06-15-2012, 11:14 AM   #14
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Re: 100NL: Turned toppair+FD after c-r bluff

call now. he's betting worse hands like KQ or Q9 and probably 3 bets a flush on the flop a good % of the time so your outs are usually good.
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