$0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 4 Players

BTN: $199.38 (199.4 bb)
SB: $100.50 (100.5 bb)
Hero (BB): $101.50 (101.5 bb)
CO: $171.25 (171.3 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6 5
2 folds, SB raises to $2.50, Hero calls $1.50

Flop: ($5) 8 5 8 (2 players)
SB bets $3.58, Hero calls $3.58

Turn: ($12.16) Q (2 players)
SB bets $8.70, Hero calls $8.70

River: ($29.56) T (2 players)
SB bets $22.58

Both players where unknown to each other but seem regish.
I wondered about river here. If BB isn't raising for value much on the flop, then is it hard for SB to vbet an 8?
Do you think SB should ever c/c river?(with what hands?)

What do you think is the worst hand BB should shove for value? Do you think it's a decent spot for him to bluff shove?
If SB where to check, what is the worst hand BB should bet?
How often should hero bet as a bluff? AJhi?, 5x?, 99?, AT?

Don't need to be too accurate, just wondered what you thought in each case.

I don't see a hand SB will c/c river with wtf?

Flush? Yeah, I am pretty sure its would be hard for him to call with Qx+,or just 8x.
AJ h if you have it somehow

That's a difficult hand IMO. I think it's a close fold, since some of the time villain is going to x/f the flop with his air.

Thnx for replying both.
If i post what i think, perhaps others can correct me.

I think SB should vbet 8x and better.

The amount of hands SB should c/c depends on the amount of air he c/fs which is very hard to know i guess. But i think he should c/c some hands, AA KK AQ maybe?

If SB's vbetting range is 8x+, and 21combos air to give BB 30% odds to call, so perhaps 76s 79s and KJ, he needs to call a shove with KsXs and better.
As2s has only 23% vs that range where as 55 has 56.5%.
So i think BB should shove 55+(Q8s T8 88 55 85s) for 13 combos, and since SB will be getting 32% odds on a call then, 13/.68 = 19 - 13 = 6c: AsJx As5x as bluffs.

If SB checks, I think BB should bet 8x+ and turn AJ into a bluff and bet a bit less than 1/2pot, or bet some 5x as well and bet 3/5pot or so.

Oh, and i think Qx is the worst hand BB should call OTR if he's not flatting a super wide range pre-flop.

That's an interesting analysis. And I haven't read it all tbh.
But why do you think Hero should have a x/c range? I don't disagree with you, but your x/c range seems a bit narrow IMO. IMO it should be wider.
From an exploitative standpoint, your range looks just fine. ATM. From an unexploitative standpoint... not so much.

really interesting hand, can't wait for more comments!

my 2c on villain range:

FLOP call could be a pure float, but TURN isn't, so I guess we're facing:

55 (1)
88 (1)
A8s (2)
98s (2)
87s (2)
T8s (2)
J8s (2)???
QJ (12)
QTs (2)
FLUSH DRAWS (let's count 6 or 7)
STRAIGHT DRAWS (76s, 3combos)


as for your questions:
I don't think I like to 3barrell bluff here (unless I'm sure QJo it's in his range)

I'm valuebetting 8x+

c/call range: basically we're bluffcatching but there aren't many busted draws in villain's range. The only hand he could be thin value-betting is QT (so our c/call range I guess should be AA,KK)

BB to shove 55+

BB to bet QT+

Do you mean SB? Because BB should be able to turn some hands into bluffs, AJ is a whole 15combos here and probably prefers to bluff on this run out rather than showdown, as well as some 5x hands. Also, if SB has no c/c range, then BB can't vbet anything :S which makes no sense, and if that's the case, BB can just bet his entire range and win(unless of course SB goes for a c-r sometimes, which may be the case on a board like this idk).

You think SB should get to the river and c/f too much air to only c/c AA/KK/AQ? SB needs to c/c about 60%-70% of his checking range depending on BB's bet size, to be optimal but i have no idea on how much air SB has if he plays optimally. Qx/Tx are pretty much the same here i think as bluff catchers. If you c/c too much though BB can't bluff.

Lol, that's unfortunate, since i was going for the unexploitive..
Ty for help.

@G.Threepwood: Qx would be too thin for SB to vbet i think, though i could be wrong, and why incl QJ and not AQ?

I guess I wasn't clear in my post, I meant:

BB should thin vbet QT+ (so that he's ahead of a part of SB c/calling range i.e. KQ AQ) and stack off 55+

SB should thin vbet 8x+ (Qx is either c/call or c/fold, oppo dependent). Not sure if I'd stack off with nut flush there.


imho

well actually SB can get to this river with a lot of air if he 2barrells happy (Q is quite a good card).

BB, instead, once he calls your turn bet (and FD get there on the river), has really few few combos you can c/call imho.

In my post I've tried to construct a range for villain (maybe I missed something): if you look at it, only QT is thin vbetting you (I'm quite sure QJ is checking behind)

Thnx for replying.

Hero is BB in the hand. QT isn't rly in BB's range i don't think.

This was my thinking too, i shipped river and villain:
Results: