Everybody is deep, at least 200BB

Hero holds 7QT9 and on the BB.
UTG raises 3BB
UTG+1 folds
UTG+2 has 1BB posted and calls
Button folds
SB folds
Hero (BB) calls 3BB

Pot(12BB) Flop 893

Hero (BB) Checks
UTG bets 8BB
UTG +2 folds
Hero (BB) calls 8BB

Pot(28BB Turn K

Hero (BB)
UTG bets 17BB
Hero Raises Pot (77BB)

Okay, this is online Bovada, nobody names or histories This is my first hand at the table.

I'm experimenting with peel Jam strategies. so feel free to pick this apart.

I like it, villain showed weakness by betting so small OTT and we have equity when called.

Hmm not too much a fan of this play specially 200bbs deep. Problem I see here is all worse hands will fold and better will jam on us.

With lower spr closer too 100bbs I would like the play since now worse hands with draws and flushes will call off bad and you might fold out some over pairs etc. too.

Once it gets deep I feel the stack off ranges of our opponents change. Now if you have some reads like villain bets wide and stacks of light like with 1 pair with draw or only flush draw then it's fine.

Well, going over and picking my own errors, Trying to stackoff on the flop looks more attractive. The K on the Turn hits the range of an UTG raise and is about the worst card to Peel and Jam on aside from an As and Potting it may have been a bit heavy handed. But 75% pot is lowest I should go.

My notion of Peel and Jam is a turn card that increases my outs or my fold equity over villains probable range that gives him a weak and foldable hand, but still the current best, so I'm not pulling this if say an off suite A or K hits.

In this case, I lose draw equity and gain fold equity going from the flop to the turn. Not sure if that's a good trade-off.

As for stacks, yea this is deep, but it's also .05 .10 and I'm playing it to find little goldmine plays like proper application of Peel and Jam.

Flop Equity vs a tight UTG raise, but wide open and super tight still give me big equity edge on the flop.


ProPokerTools Odds Oracle Results (2.3 Professional)
Omaha Hi, Classic syntax
Board - 8c9s3h
PLAYER_1 7sqsth9h
PLAYER_2 AA**,KK**,AKQJ,KQJT,AKQT, AKJT, AQJT,AKQ9, AKT9, AJT9,AKJ9, AQJ9, AQT9
600000 trials (randomized)


All-in Equity

	Equity %	Wins Hi %	Ties Hi %	Wins Hi Count	Ties Hi Count
7sqsth9h	59.5742%	58.9182%	1.3122%	353509	7873
AA**,KK**,AKQJ,KQJT,...	40.4258%	39.7697%	1.3122%	238618	7873

Stacking off on the flop for 200bb would be a disaster. Having an equity edge vs his whole range is fine, and means we can continue, but doesnt mean we can check raise and get it in?

For 200bb I think the turn is too light too. I think this is a good play at 80-130-140bb or so.

Don't love it because you are committing yourself to a 200BB reship where you always have bad equity, which is a really bad way to do it.

Also there is no way a stack off on the flop is good. You have shown your equity versus a range but that is not opponents stack off range. Opponent will peel his weaker parts of his range and get it in with ones which crush you. Also there is no way opponent NEVER has good 98 or sets here, or lower wrap hands

Agree with what others have said. Don't think you ever gii good 200bbs deep on flop or turn. I think you are overestimating your hand strength here. The problem is with the structure of our hand change our hand a bit to like QJT9ds or QJT7ds we will now be way more happy gii 100bbs deep for sure and even maybe 200bbs that being more opponent dependent.

I didn't like this play. For some of the reasons given by others and for other reasons I've thought of. But it wasn't for fear of losing money or having a gross misread.

AAxx from EP that turn into naked over pair flops (no or little redraw) is probably the most misplayed hands in LLPLO.

The spoiler: Villain folded. Don't know what he had.

It seems like since the play worked you have confidence about this hand. You don't seem to grasp that your equity isn't that good when you get allin otf. A stack-off range and an opening range are two hugely different things. Having the bad end of the straight here makes it awful. Instead, ask yourself why you're doing things. Why do you think raising is > calling (ask in your head, don't reply here).

Result don't matter and just furthers my assumption that it's a humble brag post. Way to go.

Well, if I wanted to post in BBV I would have. I know the difference. I also know the difference between a sloppy vanity post like yours and somebody actually trying to contribute.

These are the threads that started me researching this with propokertools and pokerjuice. So I don't think confirmational bias is my problem.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/15...-flop-1615108/

Go read that thread and toss some vanity bombs in there.

would you rather have straight out that make the nuts?

Yes. Thanks to responses like yours and others I see why stacking of OTF is wrong

I was trolling the other guy. all your straight outs are to the nuts.
still, stacking off otf is way too light esp this deep, and same can be said ott.
as others said, there is a huge gap between his betting range and his stacking off range, you are doing very poorly against all reasonable (and some unreasonable) stacking off ranges, you still got too much equity to just fold but you don´t want to gii for 200bb as a 2 to 1 dog.

leading flop is interesting, c/c is fine as well, as played, turn has to be a c/c, no need to do anything fancy here

I actually don't think your play is that bad occasionally against competent opposition. If we aren't bluffing this ever merely because we're deep, its basically like saying we don't have a bluffing range, and we should have a bluffing range. I know in villain shoes, I'd be snap folding 2pair and worse and would be feeling a little sick with 88 and 99, so your play would certainly be +EV vs me at least until I got a read on you.

We don't have any reason to believe villain is competent though, in fact being our first hand at anonymous tables villain is exactly average (not the same as unknown). So basically we're just asking ourselves is Bovada reg infested enough for this to be OK. I don't play Bovada, but I've played other soft US friendly sites and my guess is 'not quite'. Another consideration is that on an anonymous site we aren't really getting any sort of long term image boost if we get caught bluffing here.

Calling is waaaay better than ch/jam imo