***Small Stakes PLO BBV THREAD***

[blopp]

Originally Posted by antchev

This is gross. Here's my advice - start using HEM. Their AllIn Luck (EV Diff or whatever) calculation is so wrong

can you explain this?

[Pg9]

Originally Posted by gavz101

I've vowed to stop looking at PokerEV/ all-in EV after reading The Elements of Poker. Pretty brutal run Steve but really all you can do is keep on playing your best, keep on learning, keep on improving and try to tilt as little as possible.

This.
In addition i stopped looking at PTO and PEV on a daily basis as the results were affecting my game and motivation too much...
I'm going through the same **** - basically breaking even for the last 80k+ hands - but I'm convinced that happier times are ahead...

[Neverfeltme]

PokerStars Game #28450521430: Omaha Pot Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2009/05/21 10:49:32 ET
Table 'Roehla' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Bistei ($49.25 in chips)
Seat 2: elvezio ($39.15 in chips)
Seat 4: ndq1 ($63.35 in chips)
Seat 5: Zihuatanejo7 ($133.70 in chips)
Seat 6: Neverfeltme ($94 in chips)
elvezio: posts small blind $0.25
everet: is sitting out
ndq1: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Neverfeltme [Qd 4s Kd Kc]
Zihuatanejo7: raises $1 to $1.50
Neverfeltme: calls $1.50
Bistei: folds
elvezio: raises $5 to $6.50
ndq1: folds
Zihuatanejo7: calls $5
Neverfeltme: calls $5
*** FLOP *** [3d Ks 5h]
elvezio: bets $19
Zihuatanejo7: folds
Neverfeltme: raises $57 to $76
elvezio: calls $13.65 and is all-in
Uncalled bet ($43.35) returned to Neverfeltme
*** TURN *** [3d Ks 5h] [7d]
*** RIVER *** [3d Ks 5h 7d] [4h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
elvezio: shows [2c 2d As Ac] (a straight, Ace to Five)
Neverfeltme: shows [Qd 4s Kd Kc] (three of a kind, Kings)
elvezio collected $83.30 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $85.30 | Rake $2
Board [3d Ks 5h 7d 4h]
Seat 1: Bistei (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: elvezio (small blind) showed [2c 2d As Ac] and won ($83.30) with a straight, Ace to Five
Seat 4: ndq1 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: Zihuatanejo7 folded on the Flop
Seat 6: Neverfeltme showed [Qd 4s Kd Kc] and lost with three of a kind, Kings

[antchev]

Originally Posted by blopp

can you explain this?

They don't take into account the odds when the money is put into the pot, they take only the AllIn situation odds for the whole pot. I'll give the following example to illustrate: you're on the button w/ 50bb and have AAJTds and your opponent is on the BB w/ 50bb and has KK72 rainbow, the odds preflop are 80/20, the betting goes raise/3bet/4bet/call. The flop comes K43, not a single suite of yours, now the odds are 15/85. Of course, you both go allin and put the remaining 10bb in and you lose. When you see the EV Diff number it'll show that you're owed 7.5b for this hand, because it takes the odds of the allin situation for the entire pot (as if you've put 50bb into the pot as a 15/85 dog) and doesn't take into account that you've put into the pot 40bb as a 80/20 favorite preflop. It's completely wrong and distorted, I'm sure you can find a similar hand in your database and you can check out the EV Diff number. PokerEV computes it right, but who cares any more.

[mixmastermattyk]

These hands occurred simultaneously on different tables vs the same villain. Neither are terrible and the second one is completely meh but it made me laugh and remember why this guy is on my buddy list lol.

The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $1775.00
BTN: $1459.00
SB: $1652.50
Hero (BB): $7104.00
UTG: $1559.00

Pre Flop: ($30.00) Hero is BB with 2 Q J T
3 folds, SB raises to $60, Hero calls $40

Flop: ($120.00) 2 Q 5 (2 players)
SB bets $118, Hero raises to $472, SB raises to $1534, Hero raises to $2596, SB calls $58.50 all in

Turn: ($3305.00) 9 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($3305.00) T (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $3305.00
SB shows K J A 2 (a straight Nine to King)
Hero shows 2 Q J T (two pairs, Queens and Tens)
SB wins $3303.00
(Rake: $2.00)


The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $1279.00
BB: $3237.00
Hero (BTN): $6501.75

Pre Flop: ($30.00) Hero is BTN with 5 3 7 6
Hero raises to $70, SB raises to $230, 1 fold, Hero calls $160

Flop: ($480.00) 3 4 8 (2 players)
SB bets $479, Hero raises to $1916, SB calls $570 all in

Turn: ($2578.00) Q (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($2578.00) 4 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $2578.00
SB shows J 2 A Q (two pairs, Queens and Fours)
Hero shows 5 3 7 6 (two pairs, Fours and Threes)
SB wins $2577.00
(Rake: $1.00)

[yop]

$1/$2 Pot Limit Omaha Hi
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($276.70)
UTG+1 ($198.00)
Hero (CO) ($709.80)
BTN ($53.00)
SB ($809.58)
BB ($150.84)

Pre-flop: ($3, 6 players) Hero is CO Q A A 8
2 folds, Hero raises to $7, BTN calls $7, SB raises to $30, 1 fold, Hero raises to $99, BTN folds, SB calls $69

Flop: 4 T K ($207, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $144, SB raises to $639, Hero calls $466.80

Turn: 4 ($1,456.80, 2 players)

River: 4 ($1,456.80, 2 players)

Final Pot: $1,456.80
SB shows: 9 6 K J
Hero shows: Q A A 8

SB wins $28.20 ( lost -$709.80 )
Hero wins $1,425.60 ( won +$715.80 )
BTN lost -$7

[jwc529]

Originally Posted by antchev

This is gross. Here's my advice - start using HEM. Their AllIn Luck (EV Diff or whatever) calculation is so wrong and useless that eventually you'll stop caring and just play your game.

that's what HEM does I believe , pokerev does have a street by street calc outside of the allins though too. I agree that its best not to look at it, you already know when your running good or bad anyways

[lukaluka05]

Full Tilt Poker $9,000 Guarantee (Rebuy) Pot Limit Omaha Hi Tournament - t200/t400 Blinds - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG: t14954 M = 24.92
Hero (UTG+1): t12308 M = 20.51
UTG+2: t28258 M = 47.10
MP1: t72231 M = 120.39
MP2: t20840 M = 34.73
CO: t17362 M = 28.94
BTN: t33405 M = 55.67
SB: t20712 M = 34.52
BB: t16602 M = 27.67

Pre Flop: (t600) Hero is UTG+1 with 4 5 8 9
1 fold, Hero calls t400, 1 fold, MP1 raises to t800, 4 folds, BB calls t400, Hero calls t400

Flop: (t2600) 7 5 3 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP1 bets t1200, BB folds, Hero raises to t6200, MP1 calls t5000

Turn: (t15000) T (2 players)
Hero bets t5308 all in, MP1 calls t5308

River: (t25616) 4 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: t25616
Hero shows 4 5 8 9 (two pair, Fives and Fours)
MP1 shows T 6 T T (three of a kind, Tens)
MP1 wins t25616

[iggymcfly]

The HEM way to look at how you're running is the only way to completely remove systematic bias due to play style. If they look at all streets, long-term you'll always look like you're running better or worse than you actually are due to your play style. Yeah, it won't account for the short-term variance quite as well, but I think it's definitely the better system.

And Steve, I can definitely sympathize with you. I'm running 25 BI under EV myself the last month and running much worse at 5/10 and 10/20 than 2/4 and 3/6.

[AshleyC]

First day at new site. Does the opposite to the 'withdrawl curse' exist?

[jwc529]

Originally Posted by AshleyC

First day at new site. Does the opposite to the 'withdrawl curse' exist?

you gotta train it like a dog imo, topoff the account and generate lots of rake when running well, withdraw and stop playing when running bad. pretty soon the rng will become self-aware and put you on perma-boomswitch

[DMoogle]

How come I played Willie Mays for almost two hours and lost?

[SteveL91]

Here's my advice - start using HEM.

I've vowed to stop looking at PokerEV/ all-in EV after reading The Elements of Poker. Pretty brutal run Steve but really all you can do is keep on playing your best, keep on learning, keep on improving and try to tilt as little as possible.

In addition i stopped looking at PTO and PEV on a daily basis as the results were affecting my game and motivation too much...

Yea, I've recently started to use HEM too, but (at least for the rest of this year) I import the hands into PTO as well. I try not to pay too much attention to the EV calcs and I haven't used pokerEV in a while since regardless of what it says, it never seems more than a mirage; I tend to know how I'm running. Thankfully, that's one habit I've been successfully breaking myself of, but sometimes it's just a confidence boost to see that I'm not entirely delusional. I was mostly just curious to see where things were because I actually feel like I've broken through a huge plateau in the past few months and I feel like I'm making a lot of progress and playing PLO better than I ever have... but the results just haven't been there.

I never had much of a spew-monkey tilt problem; my tilt is more insidious in that my mental state deteriorates to the point where I just want to give-up and feel like I'm cursed. While I don't necessarily believe that a positive attitude brings positive results, it couldn't hurt; furthermore, I know a negative sure as **** doesn't help! And I still spend way too much time going through PTO/HEM. Something else I'm trying to stop doing so much.

The bitch of it is that if you told me a year ago I would get my non-showdown winnings to (~2) or lower, I would have thought it would have meant a winrate of 8+ptBB. Poker's funny that way.

I'm running 25 BI under EV myself the last month and running much worse at 5/10 and 10/20 than 2/4 and 3/6.

This is actually the bigger problem: like you, I'm running so terribly at anything higher. I haven't run great at .25/.5 lately, but despite a 65k hand breakeven streak over this time period, I'm still winning at ~3ptBB. Obviously not thrilled with it being that low, but I'll take it during such a poor run. And I think I'm starting to come out of it, so I'm not too worried and I think I'll start to see some fruition from the work I've done. But I've spent the past year trying to get back into the .5/1 games and I just can't get re-established in them and it's really annoying to say the least. I'm incredibly stressed out financially and I don't know if I'm ever going to break through this ceiling. Assuming I don't go broke first, that is.

Which way to the staking forum?

[antchev]

Villain is kipa58.

[ ] check-raises flop w/ a great hand
[x] biggest station ever

I just can't figure out how he is a winning player. Such a mistery...

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
PL Omaha $4(BB) Poker Stars
SB ($408)
BB ($339)
Hero ($421)
UTG+1 ($512)
CO ($483)
BTN ($194)

Dealt to Hero ATA5

Hero raises to $14, fold, fold, fold, fold, BB calls $10,

FLOP ($30) K92

check, Hero bets $28.50, BB calls $28.50,

TURN ($87) K924

check, Hero bets $84, BB calls $84,

RIVER ($255) K9242

check, Hero bets $252, BB calls $212 (AI),

BB shows JQ5K
(Flop 33.5%, Turn 30.0%)

Hero shows ATA5
(Flop 66.5%, Turn 70.0%)

Hero wins $677

[wazz]

Originally Posted by antchev

Villain is kipa58.

[ ] check-raises flop w/ a great hand
[x] biggest station ever

I just can't figure out how he is a winning player. Such a mistery...

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
PL Omaha $4(BB) Poker Stars
SB ($408)
BB ($339)
Hero ($421)
UTG+1 ($512)
CO ($483)
BTN ($194)

Dealt to Hero ATA5

Hero raises to $14, fold, fold, fold, fold, BB calls $10,

FLOP ($30) K92

check, Hero bets $28.50, BB calls $28.50,

TURN ($87) K924

check, Hero bets $84, BB calls $84,

RIVER ($255) K9242

check, Hero bets $252, BB calls $212 (AI),

BB shows JQ5K
(Flop 33.5%, Turn 30.0%)

Hero shows ATA5
(Flop 66.5%, Turn 70.0%)

Hero wins $677

There are lots and lots of much worse ways to play that hand.