Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Should I have called here with top and bottom pair? Should I have called here with top and bottom pair?

12-20-2014 , 01:46 PM
I considered this a marginal fold... was i right?

I had absolutely no stats or info on button.
He had just bet pot into two people.
I have a guy behind me left to act
I don't have any decent redraws

My best hope is that button has an Ace with high cards/redraw.
Really I can only beat a semi bluff, and i'm not even that far ahead in that case.
If he's betting a made hand then he is going to be far ahead of me.

What do you guys think?


    On Game, $0.10/$0.10 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #33510261

    BB: $9 (90 bb)
    UTG: $7.83 (78.3 bb)
    MP: $9.62 (96.2 bb)
    CO: $15.32 (153.2 bb)
    BTN: $4.94 (49.4 bb)
    Hero (SB): $3.50 (35 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with 7 6 J A
    3 folds, BTN calls $0.10, Hero checks, BB raises to $0.30, BTN calls $0.20, Hero calls $0.20

    Flop: ($0.90) T A 7 (3 players)
    Hero checks, BB checks, BTN bets $0.90, Hero folds, BB calls $0.90

    Turn: ($2.70) A (2 players)
    BB checks, BTN bets $2.70, BB folds

    Spoiler:
    Results: $2.70 pot ($0.18 rake)
    Final Board: T A 7 A
    BB mucked and lost (-$1.20 net)
    BTN mucked and won $2.52 ($1.32 net)



    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.
    Should I have called here with top and bottom pair? Quote
    12-20-2014 , 04:21 PM
    top and bottom pr?
    you turned the full house and 2nd nuts
    never folding this!!
    Should I have called here with top and bottom pair? Quote
    12-20-2014 , 05:16 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by StackJackin
    top and bottom pr?
    you turned the full house and 2nd nuts
    never folding this!!
    aye i know what i would have turned, but i had already folded on the flop for the reasons above.
    Chance of hitting full house on turn was at best ~9% (4 outs if opponent had neither 7 or A)

    I know turn is an easy call. Question is: is flop an easy call?

    Surely I can't call with 2 pair on flop simply hoping to hit full house on turn?

    Last edited by LetsTango; 12-20-2014 at 05:25 PM.
    Should I have called here with top and bottom pair? Quote
    12-20-2014 , 07:10 PM
    Fold pre.

    Once you do call pre, folding on this flop for 32bb is just ******ed.

    Mega standard CRAI, imo.
    Should I have called here with top and bottom pair? Quote
    12-21-2014 , 08:42 PM
    Why are we calling preflop with this sort of trash OOP, and what sort of flop are we hoping to hit?

    If you can't at least peel one off, or even better, bet-call or check-raise allin with the shortish stack on the wet board with the likely best hand, given these sort of effective stacks, save your money and stop calling with trash pre.
    Should I have called here with top and bottom pair? Quote
    12-21-2014 , 09:21 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadtwos
    Why are we calling preflop with this sort of trash OOP, and what sort of flop are we hoping to hit?

    If you can't at least peel one off, or even better, bet-call or check-raise allin with the shortish stack on the wet board with the likely best hand, given these sort of effective stacks, save your money and stop calling with trash pre.
    I'll translate this to friendly language+PL10 friendly language:
    If you're not sure how to play weaker ranges vs weaker ranges (assuming all @PL10 are) you should just stick to playing tight preflop so you do not have to worry about being dominated too often. Thus fold low suited, weak connected hands OOP preflop and dont even worry about seeing the flop as there are too little flops where we have the obvious nuts and have no fear of being dominated = have a 'tough' decision
    Should I have called here with top and bottom pair? Quote
    12-23-2014 , 08:36 PM
    Don't short stack PLO10. I assume if you are playing this stake it is to learn the game or play recreationally. As such, if you are learning the game then short stacking won't be helping you much in the learning process.

    I'm guessing you've probably read Jeff Hwang's book and his section on short stacking? Or you've heard somewhere else about it... either way, you're not doing it right in this hand. One of the big advantages with SS in PLO is that hand equities run so close. Therefore, you can do stuff like cold 4-bet pre with any 4 cards and it be +ev if you've trapped enough dead money in the pot. Plus in post flop multi-way situations you can jam wider and give awkward spots to players behind you (where they believe they might be ahead of you but have to fold for fear of the players behind them)

    SS is profitable but at micro stakes with bad players and high rake it's going to be more profitable to be covering everyone - even if SS is more profitable though I'll go back to my previous point that at NL10 you're not making enough profit for it to be worthwhile and you really want to be playing deeper so you can learn the game better.

    At small-mid- higher stakes SS again isn't great - the REG's know better how to play against SS (min-open more, not cold calling hands with you to act behind... etc. Makes SS for you less profitable and if there's a fish at the table that's full stacked and you're only 1/3 of 100bb's then you'll be missing out on value there.
    Should I have called here with top and bottom pair? Quote

          
    m