1/2 5 PLO
Hero - Fat White Male 37 Ran $400 into $1500 to this point. Getting a little lucky vs the short stacks and cleaning out the whale to my right. Probably playing 30% of the hands.

Villain 1 - 30s White Male $3000 stack. He has been the Table preflop raising Captain. He is keeping it pretty small for this game.... $15 IP and $20 OOP. Playing 80% of hands. C-betting like 80% of the flops like we are playing holdem. Giving up on turns when he is unimproved. Very aware postflop.

Villain 2 - 30s White Male $2000 stack. Headphones and Sunglasses. GII on the Turn with up and down Str8 draw only a few hands earlier and wins with JT high vs J9. Berates the players after the hand and is somewhat tilted despite winning.

OTTH

5 handed.....
UTG folds.
Whale on right limps.
Hero on button limps with KQJT Anticipating Villain 1's raise.
Villain 1 in SB raises to $20.
Villain 2 in BB calls.
Whale calls.
Hero calls.

Flop J T3 ($80)

Villain 1 bets $50.
Villain 2 calls.
Whale folds.
Hero calls.

Turn 4 ($230)

Villain 1 checks.
Villain 2 bets $125.
Hero calls.
Villain 1 folds.

River K ($480)
Villain 2 bets $300.
Hero ????

Seems like Villain either has the nuts or nothing here IMO. Sets and 2 pairs are hating this river card and turning their hand into a bluff if betting here. I think Q9 and T9 are likely to check to showdown. Seems like he is only representing AQ here which we have a blocker. It seems as if his range here could be very wide including combo draws for the wheel and missed flush draws.

I don't play live PLO or stakes as high, but why all the passiveness?

I'd raise OTF.

Your problem here is not the river. Your problem is preflop and flop. The only reason why i would limp here is to hope that someone raises in the blinds and that i can 3bet.

Call a rainbow flop with top two, openender, backdoorflush draw....?

tbh: what are you waiting for?

and i would fold the river. The only reason we call here is to punish ourself for playing this hand like a donk...

You're all confused about what to do on the river because you played the hand like **** up until that point

YEs blunt, sry for hating

Not normally this passive. I played this hand a bit deceptively. All the players are very deep and I would rather utilize my position here and get max value instead of pushing players out of the pot. It is not typical or standard but based on the actions of Villain 1. Villain 1 has been value cutting himself a few times tonight and I wanted to give him as much rope as he wanted. Villain 2 just happened to get in the way.

No worries. I would normally agree but I played this passively purposely. The game was very deep and Villain 1 has been value cutting himself all night (tripled barreled 3rd nut flush and called a river reraise by the nuts).

I also have such a lock on this hand on the turn, I didn't want to push out his dominated draws with a raise.

I don't see a reason to 3 bet in position here with the top part of my range. I focus on getting value on the last 3 streets..... Not preflop. Just my game. Don't know that it makes me a donk (my winrate would suggest otherwise) but you are entitled to your opinion.

Now to the real issue..... Why would you fold the river?

When you 3bet preflop you can get more value on the last 3 streets

Can't imagine one hand that is bluffing here besides 98xx in spades. And he's probably giving that up or bluffs smaller since that river smashes your range.
Having said that it is a huge mistake not getting in money against a hand like that at any point.

Raise pre, raise flop, raise turn.

fwiw I think the biggest issue in the hand is not raising pre. You're on the button with KQJTds deep and you don't raise pre. I mean.... wat

I guess you might be under-rolled for the game and that's the reason why? It's the only logical thing I can think of to be honest

Preposterous. My nitty grandma is betting Q9 here.

River is still a call though.

Play on earlier streets is overly passive as mentioned; you have an excellent hand on every street against a player raising 80%+ of hands and c-betting a lot, and against another on tilt.

along with the others, if the guy is raising basically every hand then I like the limp and pot re-raise pre. We have an absolute sweet hand on the button deep, this is like a dream scenario to shovel money in. You say he's doing this like 80% of the time and we have position and he shuts down post when he doesn't have it, it doesn't get much better than this. Bet the hand.

flop:
Once the flop hits we hit top two and an OESD, jackpot should be better fairly large for value as a ton of **** we dominate is going to be what continues. These are the boards we 3-bet for because we dominate them so hard.

As played this is an easy raise on flop for value.


Turn: this is a brick for basically everyone else but it gives us the backdoor 2nd nfd. I'd be betting large again.

as played this is another easy raise for value, we have it all.

River: At this point if we get called on our two large bets prior I'd be checking this down, should still have plenty of showdown with top 2. If the guy was a station I'd be value betting it again but it either looks like we would be up against a wrap that either got there or missed or an idiot set which all either beat us or fold river.

As played our hand is so under-repped and we have the queen blocker I'd be calling and not feeling good about it but their range should be wide enough we win at least 30% of the time. Really ****ty position though since the other three streets were played so poorly.

I don`t know if i would call or fold... I don`t know if it makes a big difference in terms of EV. Maybe some juice-nerd can calculate this for u(s).

My brain has still problems to understand preflop. You can`t see a reason to raise or 3bet? - Are you serious or trolling? Or Loctus is right with his guess that u are underrolled and scared. That`s never good and this i can tell based on own expirence.

I play all streets different

Just play a different style. Not underrolled or scared necessarily. In this case, I may have lost value by playing it passively.

Preflop - Raise is fine but having position with a suited rundown, I prefer to just call. The Villains are going to be giving me ton of chips on the later streets.

Flop. I don't like raising here because I think Villain 1 has air but could double barrel if he picks up equity.

Turn - On this street, I agree that a raise would have been best. I think that Villain 2 was likely dominated with a lower fd/low sd combo. On this street, I think that a raise was likely better than calling.

River - The only hands he is betting here are AQ and Q9. Q9 might even check back. All other straights/sets and 2 pair are checking back or turning their hands into bluffs for no reason.

I think this is a perfect spot to call with top 2.

I'm ok with postlflop play. If we get 3bet we're either getting it in 300bb deep with 2pair or were folding away lots of outs, both of which are bad. Our hand needs very little protection and with position we can ensure every street gets bet. If villains were nits we wouldn't have to worry about a 3bet and if villains were complete droolers we would be Ok with getting it in, but from your reads it seems like villains are in between.

River is pretty close but I think it's a fold.

raise flop and turn. I'm tempted to call river.

Lots of people like the raise/????? line.

Unless OP's description is bad, it seems like we have a guy with an 80% VPIP who raises a lot pre, and another loose-ish opponent who is tilted.

Even something like incorrectly stacking off against sets-only ranges is a surprisingly small mistake in overall EV when adjusted for the frequency it can happen (~7.5% at the high end, probably quite a bit lower). Making the pot 3x larger against wide ranges, which accounts for many more outcomes than that, should more than compensate.

Our hand also performs substantially better than bare TT against tight ranges of [sets+, the best of the wraps], with the disparity growing even larger against [TT+, good 33, good JT, the best of the wraps] (and similar things can be said about turn ranges of strong hands and strong draws). So if you aren't raising this hand on the basis that it performs questionably when all the money gets in, you probably should be value raising only top set and good middle sets, which seems way too tight situationally.

this
Which hands is villain bluffing here? He's probably isoing aces pre against the maniac. So the only thing left are hands like 98xx. + this river hits hero pretty hard because he has all his Q9 and some AQ combos in his range.

The hands which villain would try to fold out are likely raising flop (sets, 2pair). Just doesn't make sense for me to bluff here in villains shoes.

That looks wrong. ~3/4ths of Hero's range should be worse than Q9 on the river, with much of that being worse than kings up.

Your game has tremendous leaks then. PLO is about pushing equity edges and this is one preflop. Doing anything but raising is throwing money away. But hey if your game is literally throwing money away, that's your game.

OP posting the important information here

I felt so let down by this, so anti-climatic




I quite like how you played the hand though, we really don't wanna get freerolled by JT with the nutflush with so much money behind

+1
River is a call imo based on his sizeing

But Hero always has 2p+
If Hero doesn't raise this hand otf he literally has every Q9 combo is his range besides Q9JJ.
But again, which hands is Villain bluffing here? Him not isoing AA against an 80 % openraiser ip would be a huge mistake I guess. So there's only 98xx combos. Many of them don't bet the turn.

But I guess there's something fishy about his size. Looks like he wants to get Villain off something but doesn't want to risk that much when running into the nuts. And I think he goes for a ch/r with the nuts sometimes.

So it might be close your eyes and call spot.

Lol, wut. Not getting more money in otf is just lolbad imo. They never ever have a set if the bet close over half pot on the flop and just call. And it's not like you have a topset on a rb board in HoldEm. You don't mind folding out equity.

You probably have like 50 % there on the flop against both of them. Why not fold out their equity or getting value from hands like worse 2p + oesd.