*~* Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour *~*

[Wolfram]

Originally Posted by funnybot

i agree to some extend. both villains are fish and i guess ill be making (alot!) better decisions then them postflop. they won't put me in tought spots as maybe a good reg (which they are not many at this lvl) will do. Thanks for your input!

I meant fold to the initial post-flop bet, not to the preflop raise.

[SlimyF]

Originally Posted by Wolfram

Villain can't make a big mistake when we hit big. He has 1.4psb left. If he stacks off 100% he's pretty close to playing perfectly.

And what marginal spots are you talking about? We're either stacking off on the flop or we're not. We either have enough equity on the flop to stack off vs aces or we don't.

This situation really is as cut-n-dry as it comes. Our only chance at making any money here is to hope villain folds his equity and I don't think he will.

Stacking off 100 % with 1,4 SPR is far from perfect, thou profitable vs. most. With marginal spots I just meant those 1 p + 2bdfd type situations.

And like I wrote before, in my opinion villains (possible) incapability to fold post is our advantage.

[#myfightmatters]

10 hands on villain
60/50 AF:5
0% 3bet

Question is pre, and turn

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $9.70 (97 bb)
BB: $10 (100 bb)
MP: $7.23 (72.3 bb)
CO: $8.48 (84.8 bb)
Hero (BTN): $10 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with K A Q T
MP calls $0.10, CO calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.55, SB raises to $1.95, 3 folds, Hero calls $1.40

Flop: ($4.20) 8 7 Q (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($4.20) K (2 players)
SB bets $1.50, Hero raises to $8.05 and is all-in, SB calls $6.25 and is all-in

River: ($19.70) 2 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

[rza gza odb id rtc]

^ looks good

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
PL Omaha $0.50(BB) Replayer
($55.34)
Hero ($49.04)

Dealt to Hero 2 Q A 9

Hero raises to $1.50, calls $1

FLOP ($3) 8 6 4

checks, Hero bets $2, raises to $7.25, Hero calls $5.25

TURN ($17.50) 8 6 4 2

bets $13.12

seems like fold.. dont like how this hand played out tho, u really have to fold almost ur whole range here?

[coon74]

@funnybot (last hand). Def iso 3bet pre as the hand plays much better HU with SPR=4 than multiway with a bigger SPR and regs involved.

The flop check is good as you hate being c/r'ed. I can't say what cbet range is the best here - if it's only the straightflush, ace-high flushes, bare A, sets, two pairs or something else should be added (maybe straight blockers?). The problem is that this flop hardly hits preflop ranges, it's an air-vs-air game. Unfortunately Bugs has written nothing about this flop texture thought he promised I'm really lost here. But definitely small flushes are of medium value even if they have straightflush blockers - they have hardly any outs vs ace-high flushes.

The turn call is fine. I'm clueless how to construct the river shoving range, including K-high flushes there along with some baby flush bluffs and bluffcatching with Q-T-high flushes is fine imho (I haven't done the math ldo).

Pros please review funnybot's last hand, I'm lost on low monotone boards. Maybe even write a digest on this.

@myfight: well played.

@rza. As explained above for funnybot's spot, I'd prefer to check the flop and call him down. Calling his check/raise is just burning money if you're not ready to call the turn: you don't have outs vs his valuebet range.

[yourface]

is there a consensus as to a good red line bb/100 for small stakes games? I have been losing at about -1bb/100 for my first 120k hands played of 6max PLO at 100 and 200, and my red line has a slope of about -25bb/100. does this seem reasonable? I was talking to a friend of mine who has historically won at about 3bb/100 in similar games and iirc he said that his red line was around -5bb/100 or so o_O

[coon74]

^ That's not the right thread to ask, go to the stats thread imo. Having a significantly negative red line is standard for micro PLO, for PLO100-200 25bb/100 seems too much, afaik it's easier corrected not by bluffing more but by valuebetting thinner (i.e. checking fewer rivers).

The following hand rather belongs to BBV, but still I'd like to check if my actions are standard. Both villains are unknown. I played this 3-max table with a shortie on the right because I was testing a HUD configuration (with no success ), that was poor table selection ldo.

Microgaming - €0.20 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 3 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: €1.81
Hero (BTN): €20.00
SB: €15.46

SB posts SB €0.10, BB posts BB €0.20

Pre Flop: (pot: €0.30) Hero has 8 K 2 K

Hero raises to €0.70, SB calls €0.60, BB calls €0.50

Flop: (€2.10, 3 players) 6 J A
SB checks, BB bets €1.11 and is all-in, Hero calls €1.11, SB calls €1.11

Turn: (€5.43, 3 players) 6
SB checks, Hero checks

River: (€5.43, 3 players) K
SB bets €2.80, Hero raises to €13.65 putting SB all-in

[Clayton]

way standard

[coon74]

Thanks, Clayton, it was nice to see you responding to me, a mere mortal.

Now I'd like the following seemingly too spewy hands to be rated (except for the retarded preflop misclick in the former). Villains are unknown in both.

GTECH G2 (Boss) - $0.30 PL Hi (5 max) - Omaha Hi - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: $30.00
Hero (BTN): $36.20
SB: $49.74
BB: $30.20

SB posts SB $0.15, BB posts BB $0.30

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.45) Hero has 7 4 9 T

UTG raises to $1.05, Hero calls $1.05, SB calls $0.90, fold

Flop: ($3.45, 3 players) 4 J 9
SB checks, UTG bets $2.58, Hero raises to $9.03, fold, UTG calls $6.45

Turn: ($21.51, 2 players) 3
UTG checks, Hero bets $19.92 putting UTG all-in

Microgaming - €0.40 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: €71.21
CO: €76.60
BTN: €36.60
Hero (SB): €40.00
BB: €84.14
UTG: €28.81

Hero posts SB €0.20, BB posts BB €0.40

Pre Flop: (pot: €0.60) Hero has Q T 5 Q

fold, fold, CO calls €0.40, BTN calls €0.40, Hero calls €0.20, BB raises to €2.00, CO calls €1.60, BTN calls €1.60, Hero calls €1.60

Flop: (€8.00, 4 players) 8 9 4
Hero bets €5.40, BB calls €5.40, fold, fold

Turn: (€18.80, 2 players) Q
Hero bets €12.60, BB calls €12.60

River: (€44.00, 2 players) 6
Hero bets €20.00 and is all-in

[ndahlhoff10]

1. calling pre was the misclick I hope. Don't raise flop, it's closer to a fold than a raise. I'd probably call though with the gutter and bd fd. As played ott, shove.

2. bet more otf and pot ott

[ndahlhoff10]

IPoker, $0.50/$1 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #13743052

SB: $195 (195 bb)
BB: $100 (100 bb)
Hero (UTG): $100 (100 bb)
MP: $295.07 (295.1 bb)
CO: $135.97 (136 bb)
BTN: $104.65 (104.7 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T J Q 9
Hero raises to $3.50, 3 folds, SB raises to $11.50, BB raises to $38, Hero calls $34.50, SB raises to $151.50, BB calls $62 and is all-in, Hero calls $62 and is all-in

Flop: ($300) 8 5 2 (3 players, 2 are all-in)
Turn: ($300) 3 (3 players, 2 are all-in)
River: ($300) 4 (3 players, 2 are all-in)

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

SB is 24/19, 11% 3b, which is the same oop as ip
BB is 25/20, 10% 3b, 3.8% 4b

[ndahlhoff10]

IPoker, $0.50/$1 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #13743072

BTN: $101.50 (101.5 bb)
SB: $176.75 (176.8 bb)
BB: $348.60 (348.6 bb)
Hero (UTG): $176.65 (176.7 bb)
MP: $181.47 (181.5 bb)
CO: $197 (197 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A 6 K A
Hero raises to $3.50, MP folds, CO raises to $12, BTN folds, SB calls $11.50, BB folds, Hero raises to $49, CO calls $37, SB calls $37

Flop: ($148) 7 6 2 (3 players)
SB bets $127.75 and is all-in, Hero calls $127.65 and is all-in, CO calls $127.75

Turn: ($531.15) K (3 players, 2 are all-in)
River: ($531.15) 3 (3 players, 2 are all-in)

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

SB is 29/19, 13% cold call 3b, 20% donk bet, 600h
CO is 29/21, 15% 3b, 59% fold to cb, 200hands

[coon74]

Both hands are wp.

In hand 1 you get the right direct odds if they both shove, simply because their possible aces may be blocking each other, and tons of implied odds IP in case SB flats.

In hand 2 I assign a donking range of TP+3OC, 2P, sets, OESD to SB (it's close to 20% of his PF range, maybe he's a bit tighter because he must be donking more on FD flops) and a solid 2P+, OESD range to BB, and still you have the odds. To put it simply, it's good that you've hit the board, you have 6-7 outs most of the time.

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

board: 762

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
([K-8][K-8][K-8]7,76,72,62,77,66,22,98,85,54):13%6h!AA	31.96%	179,498	24,501
(76,72,62,77,66,22,98,85,54):15%6h!AA	41.94%	239,297	24,637
Ad6dAhKc	26.11%	156,481	310

As for my hands, thanks for answering. Preflop in the former was admittedly so bad that I regretted it even before seeing the flop. Potting two streets in the latter is exactly what I thought about in the hindsight.

[J17ster]

Originally Posted by coon74

Thanks, Clayton, it was nice to see you responding to me, a mere mortal.

Now I'd like the following seemingly too spewy hands to be rated (except for the retarded preflop misclick in the former). Villains are unknown in both.

GTECH G2 (Boss) - $0.30 PL Hi (5 max) - Omaha Hi - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: $30.00
Hero (BTN): $36.20
SB: $49.74
BB: $30.20

SB posts SB $0.15, BB posts BB $0.30

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.45) Hero has 7 4 9 T

UTG raises to $1.05, Hero calls $1.05, SB calls $0.90, fold

Flop: ($3.45, 3 players) 4 J 9
SB checks, UTG bets $2.58, Hero raises to $9.03, fold, UTG calls $6.45

Turn: ($21.51, 2 players) 3
UTG checks, Hero bets $19.92 putting UTG all-in

Microgaming - €0.40 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: €71.21
CO: €76.60
BTN: €36.60
Hero (SB): €40.00
BB: €84.14
UTG: €28.81

Hero posts SB €0.20, BB posts BB €0.40

Pre Flop: (pot: €0.60) Hero has Q T 5 Q

fold, fold, CO calls €0.40, BTN calls €0.40, Hero calls €0.20, BB raises to €2.00, CO calls €1.60, BTN calls €1.60, Hero calls €1.60

Flop: (€8.00, 4 players) 8 9 4
Hero bets €5.40, BB calls €5.40, fold, fold

Turn: (€18.80, 2 players) Q
Hero bets €12.60, BB calls €12.60

River: (€44.00, 2 players) 6
Hero bets €20.00 and is all-in

Hand 1 ; Obviously a fold pre, but you're aware of that. Flop is retarded, you get it in mega bad here. Raise small/folding is way better than potting here. We're IP so folding is probably too tight. But yeah, pretty monsterous spew.

Hand 2 ; Not super happy about it, but leading is def best. We hit the nut turn, so not much to discuss from there on in.

[Kojika]

ndahlhoff : Both hands are standard.