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Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour

11-22-2012 , 12:20 PM
Pretty standard but imo my huge mistake is shoving it in OTF with that kind of huge draws and hands. Better b/c the flop and b/shove OTT. I have a hunch that it doesn't matter in that case, only if there would been FD OTF.


    Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #14658011

    SB: $1.41 (70.5 bb)
    BB: $3.66 (183 bb)
    Hero (UTG): $2.92 (146 bb)
    MP: $5.25 (262.5 bb)
    CO: $1.75 (87.5 bb)
    BTN: $3.11 (155.5 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q 8 J K
    Hero raises to $0.07, MP calls $0.07, 4 folds

    Flop: ($0.17) T A 9 (2 players)
    Hero bets $0.12, MP raises to $0.36, Hero raises to $1.24, MP raises to $2.14, Hero raises to $2.85 and is all-in, MP calls $0.71

    Turn: ($5.87) 7 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
    River: ($5.87) 7 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

    Spoiler:
    Results: $5.87 pot ($0.21 rake)
    Final Board: T A 9 7 7
    Hero showed Q 8 J K and lost (-$2.92 net)
    MP showed 5 A A 3 and won $5.66 ($2.74 net)



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    Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote
    11-22-2012 , 12:33 PM
    U said it ur self. dont get it in on the flop
    Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote
    11-22-2012 , 05:32 PM
    Two flop spots:
    Im really trying to sort my 3b game out as I think a big leak I have is b/f too much in 3b pots when I should either b/c or c/f. Could anyone recommend videos on DC?
    Anyway Villain here is 22/14 over 378 hands. Raising 29% from the button, fold to 3b 1/5.
    Id put him on decent wraps+fd, AT, tpgk+diamonds & TT/88 if he jams.

    We have 36% vs that range which is enough to b/c:

    ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
    8,377,940 trials (Exhaustive)
    board: T8A
    Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
    AsQsJc6c36.59% 2,996,619137,090
    AKd9d, AT, J9dKd, TT, 8863.41% 5,244,231137,090

    He will call flop/fold turn & fold the flop a decent amount making it profitable given we have the right odds to b/c. Apologies if standard, just really trying to work on the basics!




    One more:
    Villain hasnt c/r over 5 opportunities. Hes 25/19 reg.
    Is the standard here to peel one?


      Full Tilt, $0.10/$0.25, $0.05 ante Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 5 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

      SB: $37.49 (150 bb)
      BB: $25 (100 bb)
      MP: $142.69 (570.8 bb)
      Hero (CO): $25 (100 bb)
      BTN: $34.30 (137.2 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is CO with 4 7 A 6
      MP folds, Hero raises to $1.10, BTN folds, SB calls $1, BB calls $0.85

      Flop: ($3.55) 5 Q 8 (3 players)
      SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $2.40, SB folds, BB raises to $7.60, Hero?

      Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote
      11-22-2012 , 09:06 PM
      Both hands from the last post are standard (b/c and peel, resp.).

      It sounds weird, but I'd fold to the river c/r in post #5675. PLO25 dynamics on monotone boards is ridiculously tight (from my tiny experience, and alas I contribute to that too). Hardly anyone c/r's 2nd flushes or worse for thin value (they're far from yrmoms ). Some LAGs make naked ace bluffs but it's psychologically harder to plan such a bluff ott when a BDFD appears than on a twotone flop (people are taught that most plans should be made otf). Therefore I expect to be shown the nuts more than 75% of the time.
      Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote
      11-23-2012 , 06:38 PM
      just curious what the best option here on the turn is, to me it felt like an easy c/f but those are the best spots to check so what do you guys think?


        Full Tilt, $0.25/$0.50 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 2 Players
        Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #14682191

        SB: $44 (88 bb)
        Hero (BB): $54.55 (109.1 bb)

        Preflop: Hero is BB with J K 7 T
        SB raises to $1.50, Hero raises to $4.50, SB calls $3

        Flop: ($9) K 3 2 (2 players)
        Hero bets $8, SB calls $8

        Turn: ($25) A (2 players)
        Hero checks, SB bets $12.50, Hero folds

        Spoiler:
        Results: $25 pot ($0.50 rake)
        Final Board: K 3 2 A
        SB mucked and won $24.50 ($12 net)
        Hero mucked J K 7 T and lost (-$12.50 net)



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        Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote
        11-23-2012 , 07:04 PM
        Looks like an easy c/f to me.. few reasons;

        - Flop is dry, you made a terri-bad huge bet size.. so I assume his flop calling range is pretty narrow; a lot of K***, 45**, gutters+pairs, no floats.

        - More likely to have an ace in his hand if he open/called a 3b pre.

        - He's unlikely to be turning K*** into a bluff OTT..
        Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote
        11-23-2012 , 07:30 PM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by tmckendry
        Looks like an easy c/f to me.. few reasons;

        - Flop is dry, you made a terri-bad huge bet size.. so I assume his flop calling range is pretty narrow; a lot of K***, 45**, gutters+pairs, no floats.

        - More likely to have an ace in his hand if he open/called a 3b pre.

        - He's unlikely to be turning K*** into a bluff OTT..
        Yeah the cbet size felt horrible i'm new to plo/cash games so i just bet quite big in general seeing as it is POT limit omaha. thanks for the feedback though, what size would you cbet here? like $4?
        Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote
        11-23-2012 , 11:15 PM
        Yeah, $4-6 is fine.
        Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote
        11-24-2012 , 12:42 PM
        Grabbed by Holdem Manager
        PL Omaha $0.25(BB) Poker Stars
        SB ($28.23)
        BB ($11.92)
        UTG ($18.89)
        UTG+1 ($61.18)
        CO ($38.55)
        Hero ($25.10)

        Dealt to Hero Q 6 K 5

        fold, fold, CO raises to $0.85, Hero raises to $2.90, fold, fold, CO raises to $9.05, Hero calls $6.15

        FLOP ($18.45) 2 9 Q

        CO bets $17.62, Hero calls $16.05 (AI)

        Villain is a straight-forward reg.

        Is this kind of line standard or spew?
        Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote
        11-24-2012 , 01:03 PM
        fold >>> call >>> 3bet pre vs reg, you are often flopping 2nd best draws and that hand is not great even if its ds, hard to flop anything big with it... as played fold
        id start 3betting this hand if OR was 40+, vs reg def muck pre
        Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote
        11-25-2012 , 05:11 AM
        Quote:
        Originally Posted by tmckendry
        Looks like an easy c/f to me.. few reasons;

        - Flop is dry, you made a terri-bad huge bet size.. so I assume his flop calling range is pretty narrow; a lot of K***, 45**, gutters+pairs, no floats.

        - More likely to have an ace in his hand if he open/called a 3b pre.

        - He's unlikely to be turning K*** into a bluff OTT..
        How would we play good/half good kings in that spot, I mean how often are we worried he's havin 45?
        Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote
        11-25-2012 , 10:35 AM
        Villain is a weak player, playing 46/8 over 37 hands. His VPIP from MP is 57/14 (7). No other reads. How do you play the flop?

        $1 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 5 players
        Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

        Hero (BTN): $153.10
        SB: $98.00
        BB: $71.85
        UTG: $40.60
        CO: $174.41

        SB posts SB $1.00, BB posts BB $1.00

        Pre Flop: (pot: $2.00) Hero has 4 A 2 8

        UTG calls $1.00, fold, Hero raises to $4.00, fold, fold, UTG calls $3.00

        Flop: ($10.00, 2 players) 3 6 7
        UTG bets $8.00, Hero?
        Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote
        11-25-2012 , 10:59 AM
        i would shove
        Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote
        11-25-2012 , 11:18 AM
        yep, easy shove
        Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote
        11-25-2012 , 11:42 AM
        Thanks for your input guys. I probably overanalyze these spots. My only reason for asking is that to me it doesn't seem like a very profitable spot, depending on how we expect villain to play, but it's probably ok. I don't think it's minus ev, though it could be.
        However the overall benefit from shoving is that it makes the hand easier to play and we avoid mistakes by realizing our equity and generating fold equity. I just frequently find myself shoving strong but not super strong draws into ranges that are never folding, which can quickly become minus ev.
        Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote
        11-25-2012 , 12:21 PM
        Zoom PLO25

          Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
          Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #14706021

          Hero (BTN): $32.49 (130 bb)
          SB: $23.56 (94.2 bb)
          BB: $23.90 (95.6 bb)
          UTG: $25.33 (101.3 bb)
          MP: $22.83 (91.3 bb)
          CO: $25 (100 bb)

          Preflop: Hero is BTN with 9 T Q T
          3 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, SB raises to $2.50, BB calls $2.25, Hero calls $1.75

          Flop: ($7.50) 7 J 4 (3 players)
          SB checks, BB bets $4.25, Hero calls $4.25, SB folds

          Turn: ($16) K (2 players)
          BB bets $15.28, Hero calls $15.28

          River: ($46.56) 3 (2 players)
          BB bets $1.87, Hero folds

          Results: $46.56 pot ($2 rake)
          Final Board: 7 J 4 K 3
          Hero mucked 9 T Q T and lost (-$22.03 net)
          BB mucked and won $44.56 ($22.53 net)



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          Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote
          11-25-2012 , 12:44 PM
          Shove turn. As played call river.
          Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote
          11-25-2012 , 01:15 PM
          Why not save those 8 BBs? I'm beating nothing on the river. Even a naked wrap just got there.
          Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote
          11-25-2012 , 01:33 PM
          Quote:
          Originally Posted by black666
          Why not save those 8 BBs? I'm beating nothing on the river. Even a naked wrap just got there.
          The pot is too big, that's why with sd value I shove turn. We only need to be good 4% of the time for our call to be +ev (assuming rake is already deducted from the pot).
          You say you beat nothing on the river. You didn't provide any information about the BB, but here are some hands:

          t987, asqstd4d, a876ds w ss, q876ds w ss, 9988ds w ss, and anything similar.

          If you have some stats on villain just plug in his range for barreling the turn and then look at your equity on the river. I just showed you that it is greater than 0% as t987ss/ds will be in virtually everybodys range for cold calling the BB.
          Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote
          11-25-2012 , 03:45 PM
          Quote:
          Originally Posted by sista_rycket
          How would we play good/half good kings in that spot, I mean how often are we worried he's havin 45?
          Not sure. I'd probably b/c like a fish unless it was against a super nit (b/f) or an aggro tard (c/c). I don't play HU but that seems like a cooler in a 3b pot 100bbs, yeah?
          Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote
          11-26-2012 , 08:28 AM
          Grabbed by Holdem Manager
          PL Omaha $0.02(BB) Replayer
          SB ($6.61)
          BB ($2.14)
          UTG ($3)
          Hero ($2)
          BTN ($4.65)

          UTG posts $0.02

          Dealt to Hero J J A 5

          UTG raises to $0.04, Hero calls $0.07, BTN calls $0.07, SB calls $0.06, fold

          FLOP ($0.30) T J 3

          SB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $0.29, BTN folds, SB calls $0.29, UTG folds

          TURN ($0.88) T J 3 4

          SB checks, Hero bets $0.85, SB calls $0.85

          RIVER ($2.58) T J 3 4 9

          SB bets $0.84, Hero folds

          SB wins $2.49

          Too nitty fold given the money left? No read on the guy
          Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote
          11-26-2012 , 08:36 AM
          yeah he very very likely has you beat here, good fold
          Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote
          11-26-2012 , 07:54 PM
          Nitty Zoom PLO25. I figured he put me on the standard AA hand and is waiting to take it away on the turn. Plus, I have blockers and outs to everything.

            Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
            Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #14747201

            BTN: $50 (200 bb)
            Hero (SB): $26.98 (107.9 bb)
            BB: $34.60 (138.4 bb)
            UTG: $63.72 (254.9 bb)
            MP: $25 (100 bb)
            CO: $19.97 (79.9 bb)

            Preflop: Hero is SB with 9 8 9 T
            3 folds, BTN raises to $0.85, Hero raises to $2.80, BB folds, BTN calls $1.95

            Flop: ($5.85) 8 T 4 (2 players)
            Hero bets $3, BTN calls $3

            Turn: ($11.85) 7 (2 players)
            Hero checks, BTN bets $5.80, Hero raises to $21.18 and is all-in




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            Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote
            11-26-2012 , 08:28 PM
            I don't like the preflop 3bet, in fact even a call is borderline (low and medium pairs are not as good as they seem, they just spoil hands; gapped rundowns are way better). The postflop was well played, esp. due to the blockers (you most likely had the best hand but had to protect it and thus get it in on the turn).
            Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote
            11-27-2012 , 06:56 PM
              Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
              Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #14769521

              BTN: $25.82 (103.3 bb)
              SB: $40.27 (161.1 bb)
              BB: $14.39 (57.6 bb)
              UTG: $57.76 (231 bb)
              Hero (MP): $57.14 (228.6 bb)
              CO: $54.23 (216.9 bb)

              Preflop: Hero is MP with A J A 9
              UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.75, 2 folds, SB raises to $2.50, BB folds, Hero raises to $7.75, SB calls $5.25

              Flop: ($15.75) Q 7 8 (2 players)
              SB checks, Hero bets $15.04, SB calls $15.04

              Turn: ($45.83) K (2 players)
              SB bets $17.48, Hero calls $17.48




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              Quick Checkup Thread - PLO flavour Quote

                    
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