Hi guys,

In the straights section of Jeff Hwang's book on PLO it states that when you hold J967 on a T85 board you have 16 outs to make a straight but looking at it I make 20 outs?

* four 4's
* three 6's
* three 7's
* three 9's
* three Jacks
* four Queens

Am I miscalculating something here or is it a mistake in the book? (the copy I have has a stack of typo's in it)

Thanks for any replies

yeah Hwang has lots of mistakes like this

Writing the book was the first mistake he made

It was my second PLO book (TJ Cloutier sp? was my first).

I think Hwang gives some solid advice for beginners such as why you want to avoid rundowns with gaps up high and how important a suited Ace is in all forms of Omaha. Dangers with underfills and some sets and lack of re-draws.

I do think Hwang over emphasizes the redraw aspect because it's incredibly rare to flop a near nut hand with a re-draw to a nut Flush/FH/str8.

His shorthanded volumes (advanced PLO) don't seem to apply to online. IMO the online players seem to play on math mostly vs "feel".

Hwang made you fold the nuts to a single bet in a 3b pot

Just taking a quick look I think he's talking about nut outs.

Use your own brain, form your own style

Indeed!

There are only 10 nut straight outs, so would still be wrong.

I found this pretty much. It provides a good overview of the game but alot of the situations he talks about just aren't coming up (I've only played about 30k hands at plo so maybe sample size is too small to draw any conclusions)

Yeah he actually has the hand down as having 10 nut outs but I think it's 14?

* four 4's
* three 6's
* three 7's
* four queens

I skimmed over his book some years ago and I don't at all recall getting that impression

maybe in a multiway pot, deep, with a lot of action ahead of you with no redraws.

There's a hh in one of his 6max books where he says to fold middle set to a flop raise on like KT2 lol.
Never gonna forgive .isolated for recommending those books to me, wasted like 2 months studying them and then months unlearning the bad information. Only okay book is the big play strategy for full ring live, but even then it's probably full of bad info.
Side note, when I called out .isolated for giving me bad advice, he said "obviously some of it is bad you just ignore the bad parts". HOW DOES A NEW PLAYER KNOW WHAT'S BAD? ffs

Yeh, you're right, for some reason decided the Q wasn't nutty too.

lol, so true!!

Where does Hwang make most of his mistakes? Is it his post-flop play? I've found the books to be informative, but maybe I am getting the wrong information and it will make me worse in the long run.

A specific question, what about his SPR and hand strength guidelines? Are they too nitty?

What are better books/resources besides his? I don't mind the forums, but in addition to the forums where should I look? Any youtube/twitch/streaming stuff?

I've played a fair amount, but I still feel pretty new when it comes to Omaha.

Other people here could answer these questions alot better than me but I found that he spends alot of time talking about stuff that just doesn't seem to happen alot and some of his advice is super nitty.

Does anyone know what the odds are of actually flopping a draw similar to what's in the op?

Back of the napkin type math, looking at hands like J_9_76 (two disconnected top gaps) on flops like T85 which fill both gaps and hit right below the bottom card.

Flops range from 752 (with 8_6_43) to QT7 (with K_J_98) [6 basic variations of hands and flops]

Odds of holding one of those hands: roughly 175-1 and then it is 269-1 against hitting the flop we need. And this ignores all the suits, so it's probably even worse than it appears.

So combined, this should happen once every 47,630 hands?

Math: There are 256 combinations of each starting hand. There are 270,725 different combinations of starting hands. 270725/(256*6) = 176.25 or 175.25:1 against. When we have a starting hand, we need 3 specific cards to flop. I think that is something like (12/48)*(8/47)*(4/46) which is 384/103776 or 1/270.25 -> 269.25:1 against.

I wouldn't call books bad but rather more irrelevant in terms of the game and it's state modern day.