So no lowering of rake.

Can we please stand together and vote against these meetings now?

Yeah I think its time to give this a serious go.

Don't block their tables. Just leave the site for a couple of weeks and let the games die out.

This is completely disgusting at thie point.

What if there was a site that took 30% of the rake stars takes from plo games now but had no VIP rewards, would you leave and play there instead?

I guess what you had in mind was to compare SNE paying effective 30% of total rake and a rake equal to 30% of PS rake.
the losing player getting raked less means they can play longer and you can get more money out of them. what rooms doesn't rake gets into the good regs pokets...
IMO way better to play at a website that would rake 30% of what PS rakes.

Err.... it depends. Ldo.

No such site exists tho afaik.

Is anyone interested in getting involved in a Kickstarter to create a site? I'm thinking something like rake collected is lower to begin with, then all operating expenses of the site are published and any excess rake is given back to players in proportion to how much was taken from them, eg if you pay 10k in rake in a given year and the site decides to give 10% back, you get 1k back. The site would be allowed to make some profit, but would need to be capped somehow.

I don't feel interested to do this because I want $$, it's more that I don't feel Pokerstars is being a good custodian of the online game by taking as much money from players as they do. If anyone else is keen drop me a pm or mention so in this thread. Obv a lot of work, but this issue effects a lot of the online community and we all have an interest in seeing a low rake alternative work.

Not pointing at anyone in this thread or particular but have there ever been people caught being shill accounts for Pokerstars on 2p2?

I'm not after the fact pointing out that seeking a rake reduction is a waste of time. I said before the meetings that it's a waste of time. I even put it in the CV thread saying don't vote for me if you expect a rake reduction because it ain't going to happen. You on the other hand thought there was a fair chance of this occurring and started a plethora of "Vote for me threads" although 15 other reps have sought out a reduction in PLO rake and it hasn't happened for them either.

If I was going to start a "vote for me thread" to balance out these popularity contests it would go something like this:

I have a suggestion/idea that would put money in the pockets of 99.99% of all Pokerstars cash game players. I will put up 1 thousand dollars in escrow for each other rep that attends the same meeting. If any of them feel that my suggestion should not be implemented as soon as humanly possible then I will give a thousand dollars to charity. If there were 5 other reps then potentially I could lose up to 5 thousand dollars. Based on the fact that I'm not a super rich man I obviously have a lot of confidence in my "suggestion". And I would put up a thousand dollars in escrow if Pokerstars told 5 reps that they won't implement this suggestion.

I don't start these fear mongering/popularity threads as I have the fullest of faith in the community that after all other avenues have been exhausted I will get the communities support without resorting to the above tactics.

Ok, sir, I think you have made your point on how delusional and populist I was with my campaign, and how ignorant the masses who voted me.

It is my pleasure to inform you that you have lost your posting privileges in this thread, unless you have questions to Nick regarding PLO ring game conditions on PokerStars.

Hackprotech and Napsus make the most sense r.e. playing low stakes PLO on Pokerstars.

It makes absolutely zero financial sense to play on Pokerstars if you are not getting Supernova Elite and play lower than $2/$4.

It's actually really a failure on Ipoker/ Ongame's part that even with 60% rakeback deals their software and customer support is generally so abysmal that so many people continue to play on Stars.

On the contrary, that's quite logical - taking less net rake and paying more commissions to affiliates, they have less money to spend on the software, CS and smart managers (and on TV and magazine ads attracting recreationals, for that matter). I'm not implying that they don't pocket a big chunk of the net rake, but the expectations from their service should be lowered according to the lower price they charge for it.

And how many casual players or 'net depositors' as Stars likes to call them are aware about these 60% rakeback deals? I would imagine that most recreational players would just go directly through the site and download the client and take what is being offered to them. So it really comes down to the fact that the sports betting sites eg. Bet 365, Stan James, William Hill etc. aren't marketing the poker section of their site very much. When you consider the other activities that they offer it makes sense because poker is not going to yield as much profit as the other facets of the business.

A casual player at pretty every major site enjoys a similarly good deal too until the first deposit bonus expires.

Reward systems typically give poorer percentages back to medium volume players than to both beginners and high volume grinders. That's quite logical - it's important to hook a beginner up (make the initial deposit last longer), then a high and tough goal (like SN/SNE) keeps the player turning like a squirrel in a wheel.

Lol How mature of you!

in b4 "happy to inform you..."

I actually thought I was quite mature about sect's little rant, but people are entitled to their opinion. In any case, I ask all posters not to derail the thread any further, evaluating my campaign/performance as a rep does not belong here.

Thread seems to have died with plenty of outstanding questions/suggestions?

true enough, I'll PM Nick

There hasn't been a non-rake related post since the last time I posted with answers to questions.

As Steve wrote in the post I've linked to below[1]:

[1] http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=2818

why is pokerstars the best option when i pay 50% less rake after rakeback on other sites in PLO? explain pls i would be curious!

You can play more hands on Pokerstars per hour on average.

Really wish Stars reps got banned from every forum but the zoo and the meetings were stopped indefinitely. I'm going to vote for that every chance I get.

Other sites aren't allowed to have their reps spam forums so why does Stars get to?

I wonder what will change now re:communication with players now that PS i sold.
We will see their reps here even less I assume.

Stars has an agreement with 2+2 that they can create these threads as long as it's alright with the moderators of the subforum in question. I'm sure the same applies to other sites who are in a business relationship with 2+2.

When I was asked, it didn't even occur to me that it would be a negative thing to have the interaction with Stars, and pushed for improvements at the meetings. If most of you feel that this is indeed harmful, we can obv just end it.

wrt the meetings, this thread is not the place for evaluating their legitimacy. My report thread at the Zoo is perfect for that at this time.

tbh i don't have the feeling that they care much about what we think anyway. they´ll pretend they do but at the end of the day they´ll just look how they can squeeze out the most for the longest period of time for themselves.