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PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap

07-19-2014 , 04:32 AM
Villain is one of the best nosebleed PLO regs. My first time playing against him as I usually play lower and he higher, so no stats/reads.



    Poker Stars, $25/$50 No Limit Omaha Cash, 4 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #28959651

    BTN: $5,745.65 (114.9 bb)
    SB: $21,862.40 (437.2 bb)
    BB: $5,272.80 (105.5 bb)
    Hero (CO): $5,000 (100 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is CO with 9 T 7 8
    Hero raises to $125, 2 folds, BB calls $75

    Flop: ($275) Q J 4 (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets $191.10, BB raises to $600, Hero calls $408.90

    Turn: ($1,475) 5 (2 players)
    BB bets $1,150



    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.



    My flop cbet is standard right? Calling a c/r with this hand kinda sucks, while checking back with no sd value is also not very appealing. Which of the two evils would you choose?

    Turn, is there any merit in shoving? I'm assuming that we have to at least call on this particular turn.

    Comments on all streets appreciated.
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote
    07-19-2014 , 05:02 AM
    I think cbet is mandatory with ten high against a good player, turn I'd keep calling in position, its not deep enough for you to fold out almost anything better imo and you have good implied odds on 6x/8x and diamonds
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote
    07-19-2014 , 05:07 AM
    I check back the flop, and call as played.
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote
    07-19-2014 , 05:52 AM
    if i knew this guy was aggro, then id hate to get check raised on this flop, so id be checking back, also hits a decent chunk of his BB flatting range, again depends on his tendencies, like how much he's 3bing

    as played, I dont think with his sizing on turn he's going anywhere, I'd want a pair to at least be (marginally) ahead of his gii draws on the turn
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote
    07-19-2014 , 07:16 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kingandtheduck
    hits a decent chunk of his BB flatting range,
    I dont think we can assume this, as he's going to be flatting this spot with about 70% hands I imagine. (hands like 338Tss just to give you an example of just how wide top regs are defending their bb)

    in general, my range on this board should be a lot stronger than his
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote
    07-19-2014 , 07:40 AM
    flop is debatable - b/c, check back, both has merits. U haven't his c/r% neither his c/f%, anyway betting can't be too bad on a rainbow board with your hands.

    OTT I think that call is slighty better than shove, with no info at all, as u said, and with a relatively small stack. U have position and can play perfect OTR.
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote
    07-19-2014 , 09:19 AM
    Flop isn't a check back. We have 10hi on a board that smashes our range and even if Villain views Apo as tight he's still got a wide defend % from the BB so we're going to bet/win on the flop a lot. As played I can't see any option but to go call/call in position although I'd suspect that turn is close.
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote
    07-19-2014 , 03:14 PM
    Meh, I guess I b/c flop and just flat turn

    There's def an argument for adding this hand in your checking range OTF, but you'd have to balance by checking back some showdown as well.
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote
    07-19-2014 , 04:05 PM
    Just call turn, hit a off-suit 6 and snap call when he jams his bottom set imo
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote
    07-19-2014 , 04:12 PM
    Firstly, congrats on reaching these games, bit weird after seeing you in plo100/200 zoom so much, I'm jealous.

    Maybe his fold is 15%, but if it is like 40% then it changes alot.

    ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
    8,984,740 trials (Exhaustive)
    board: QJ4
    Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
    Td9d8c7s50.14% 4,464,91979,595
    Ad***:60%49.86% 4,440,22679,595

    ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
    4,775,680 trials (Exhaustive)
    board: QJ4
    Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
    Td9d8c7s59.27% 2,807,03346,573
    QJ:60%40.73% 1,922,07446,573

    ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
    656,820 trials (Exhaustive)
    board: QJ4
    Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
    Td9d8c7s40.63% 265,6112,574
    Ad4d:60%59.37% 388,6352,574

    ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
    1,088,960 trials (Exhaustive)
    board: QJ4
    Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
    Td9d8c7s49.71% 532,56117,511
    KJT:60%50.29% 538,88817,511

    It is the last 2 simulations which concerns me with the call, but it is only 100bb and you have position against someone who......... I don't think it is plausible to consider him passive if he is a global elite and you have position so calling is easy. The problem lies in his river play, and his flop CC/CR range, but these things are surely going to be 'polarised'. It is still only 100bb and the call appears sound in any game to me. I don't think you would find answers in this spot from a HH, except call and see river.

    IF you did not see the river here then, wtf.

    Last edited by Mt.FishNoob; 07-19-2014 at 04:22 PM.
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote
    07-19-2014 , 04:42 PM
    why are you giving him straight flush draw otf? its rainbow
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote
    07-19-2014 , 05:09 PM
    I would really prefer a check back flop.
    This flop hits villains range quite often.
    Plus we add deception to our hand if we turn an straight as there aren't many combos of T9/T8 that don't cbet flop.
    Cbet is fine tho I guess.

    on the turn I think it would be crazy to fold.
    I think shoving isn't such a good idea as you don't have a pair as blocker and it's quite hard for us to represent a strong made hand at this point. Our FE is very close to 0 I assume.
    If villain C/R with QJ he's not going anywhere and the same goes if he has a wrap...

    Ps: Nice to see that you are fighting with the big boys. Good for you man and thanks for posting some hands here.
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote
    07-19-2014 , 05:18 PM
    Guimz, I don't think it's relevant that the flop could hit his range that much. Like apo says BB defence here is going to be higher than 70% so his range is really, really wide. It's not like a spot where villain has 3bet out the SB or something and we can really narrow a range,yes he has some hands that'll connect with this board but that could be said for nearly any board that comes.
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote
    07-19-2014 , 05:23 PM
    I usually just answer with my first thoughts not to be influenced by other posts.
    But I get your point.
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote
    07-19-2014 , 05:28 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by marek_heinz
    why are you giving him straight flush draw otf? its rainbow


    oh ****

    I originally did it correctly

    Then I edited all 4 simulations because i thought the board was 2 tone

    lol

    Respecitvally, I think our equity is

    40
    40
    50
    27

    if the correct board is used
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote
    07-19-2014 , 05:31 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by apo5tol
    Turn, is there any merit in shoving?
    With villains flop c/r and turn sizing he isn't folding ott, can you give a reason why shoving this turn would be good?
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote
    07-19-2014 , 11:40 PM
    Shoving turn is just terrible since he isn't folding on a board with that texture especially since we block weak draws he could have. We also waste our position. Checking back flop is bad too since we have T high and can stand a k/r.

    B/c flop, call turn, bluff A rivers.
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote
    07-20-2014 , 03:32 AM
    saying he isnt folding is wrong. i arrive to this flop with 4.5% bluff freq (of tot range, not flop c/r range t high is not ahead of any of this range) and all of that continues on 5 but not all of that can fold ott
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote
    07-20-2014 , 07:57 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Doorbread
    saying he isnt folding is wrong. i arrive to this flop with 4.5% bluff freq (of tot range, not flop c/r range t high is not ahead of any of this range) and all of that continues on 5 but not all of that can fold ott

    what language is this db?
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote
    07-20-2014 , 10:53 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by The4thFilm
    Shoving turn is just terrible since he isn't folding on a board with that texture especially since we block weak draws he could have. We also waste our position. Checking back flop is bad too since we have T high and can stand a k/r.

    B/c flop, call turn, bluff A rivers.
    ^This
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote
    07-20-2014 , 06:28 PM
    of course he has folds on turn
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote
    07-20-2014 , 06:45 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Doorbread
    saying he isnt folding is wrong. i arrive to this flop with 4.5% bluff freq (of tot range, not flop c/r range t high is not ahead of any of this range) and all of that continues on 5 but not all of that can fold ott

    can someone explain this post in laymans?
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote
    07-20-2014 , 11:07 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by shovingrivers
    can someone explain this post in laymans?
    which part of it do you not understand? pretty clear in my oppinion, the question is how wide is ur cr range on this board db?
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote
    07-20-2014 , 11:14 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by apo5tol
    which part of it do you not understand? pretty clear in my oppinion, the question is how wide is ur cr range on this board db?

    saying he isnt folding is wrong. i arrive to this flop with 4.5% bluff freq (of tot range, not flop c/r range t high is not ahead of any of this range) and all of that continues on 5 but not all of that can fold ott

    2 highlighted in bold
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote
    07-20-2014 , 11:31 PM
    tot=total
    and all of that continues on 5 but not all of that can fold ott = all of his bluffs continue barreling on this (blank) turn, but some of them have enough equity against my shoving range that they are priced in to call a shove
    PLO5k get c/r on flop with weak wrap Quote

          
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