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plo25 - AA on KKx flop plo25 - AA on KKx flop

08-13-2014 , 07:51 AM
Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #29601911

MP: $25 (100 bb)
CO: $81.80 (327.2 bb)
BTN: $18.27 (73.1 bb)
Hero (SB): $25 (100 bb)
BB: $29.93 (119.7 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A 4 A 2
MP folds, CO raises to $0.85, BTN calls $0.85, Hero raises to $3.65, BB folds, CO calls $2.80, BTN calls $2.80

Flop: ($11.20) K 7 K (3 players)
Hero bets $6.40, CO calls $6.40, BTN folds

Turn: ($24) 5 (2 players)
Hero ?


Same villain as in the other thread i just posted. so just copying the reads:

Villain is a pretty fishy player playing 86/40 over 250 hands beeing down about $90. His fold to cbet% is 42 otf.
Reads on him are that he likes to slowplay /small checkraise nutty boat, but also chases hands.

I guess i should bet the flop for value/protection. But what im going to do ott? My feeling is theres no way i can fold this hand if i bet, even though he has the K a huge % of the time.
Is there any way i can check/fold still? Sry totally confused about this spot, bc my opponent has a pretty wide calling range otf, which of course contains all the better hands as well like worse pairs/flush draws.
plo25 - AA on KKx flop Quote
08-13-2014 , 10:27 AM
Start by just calling pre, these aces are weaksauce. Bad flop for our hand, c-betting seems ok, but I wouldn't hate a c/f 3 ways. Turn same deal, against this opponent maybe c/c once?
plo25 - AA on KKx flop Quote
08-13-2014 , 11:47 AM
I like to reraise aces a lot but this is one spot where I wouldn't. Flop bet is OK. Turn I think you should check and go from there. Hopefully you get some timing/sizing tell. I would lean toward fold though if he bets.
plo25 - AA on KKx flop Quote
08-13-2014 , 12:06 PM
Thanks for the responses, but i don't get why you wouldn't 3b. CO opens 40% and is likely a weak player + we squeeze with (only) 100bb effective stacks.
plo25 - AA on KKx flop Quote
08-13-2014 , 12:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by siebenacht
Thanks for the responses, but i don't get why you wouldn't 3b. CO opens 40% and is likely a weak player + we squeeze with (only) 100bb effective stacks.
3betting is fine I just think calling is better. Aces is the first thing people put you on when you 3bet pre. You're out of position with no draws to go along with your hand. Really your only value is taking the pot down on the flop on dry boards or maybe getting passive players with 1pair type hands to call once and then check it down.
plo25 - AA on KKx flop Quote
08-13-2014 , 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NMcNasty
3betting is fine I just think calling is better. Aces is the first thing people put you on when you 3bet pre. You're out of position with no draws to go along with your hand. Really your only value is taking the pot down on the flop on dry boards or maybe getting passive players with 1pair type hands to call once and then check it down.
Agree with this. There a very few good flops for this hand OOP, normally with these AAxx types hands I find I either win a small pot or lose a big one as you have no clue were you stand once the flop comes. So I tend to only 3bet AAxx in position, were I can have more control over the hand
plo25 - AA on KKx flop Quote
08-14-2014 , 04:54 AM
c/f, he has quads
plo25 - AA on KKx flop Quote
08-14-2014 , 06:59 AM
Don't 3 bet those aces.
C/c flop we are either way behind or way ahead.

Betting for protection when opponent has 2 outs or we have 2 out does not seem good to me, unless he might chase the flush.
Betting for value is not the case here, it's an easy fold for QQxx JJxx etc. and the only things calling us beat us.

Flat pre
C/c flop
C/decide turn

As played c/f.
plo25 - AA on KKx flop Quote
08-14-2014 , 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by siebenacht
Thanks for the responses, but i don't get why you wouldn't 3b. CO opens 40% and is likely a weak player + we squeeze with (only) 100bb effective stacks.
I´d much rather 3-bet 8754ss vs this player than the piece of crap we´re actually holding. I guess it´s just me?

Once you reraise pre, I´d also much rather c-bet with your sizing on say 226 rainbow (very unlikely somebody hit that) than the flop we´re actually facing (king is very likely to hit somebody and flush draws won´t insta fold either). I probably check and may even check fold if I see a bet and a call.

Note how your flop sizing basically set you up for a shove or fold on the turn. Now that we´re in this mess, I think we have to shove and pray he only called with a flush draw. Seems like combo draws like 986hh are priced in to call even if we tell him we have AAxx.
plo25 - AA on KKx flop Quote
08-15-2014 , 11:47 AM
Yep, don't 3bet pre: we're likely to go 3way to a flop OOP with crappy aces. The big reason for me against 3betting is not so much that we're OOP, but that we're likely to see the flop 3way. If BTN folded pre, I'd probably 3bet. But in this spot I'm only 3betting the really good aces: double-suited aces, or single-suited aces with nice high connected kickers.

Once you find yourself on the flop here, I think I'm learning towards a bet, but I don't hate a x/c. I don't like a x/c too much here because we don't really have a x/f range: I'm cbetting my whiffs here all day, so I think we should probably just be cbetting our entire range.

Once you find yourself on the turn, I'm fine with shoving vs this villain. I think a perhaps better approach would be to check/gii, and if it checks through, to x/c on all non-heart rivers and x/f on heart rivers. This way you're enticing him to bluff OTT with draws and floats, and on the river you play pretty close to perfect (considering the circumstances).
plo25 - AA on KKx flop Quote
08-16-2014 , 06:05 AM
min raise
plo25 - AA on KKx flop Quote
08-17-2014 , 09:54 AM
^^ yeah, min-raise: these AA will be a nice addition to our min-raising range in this spot. /faceplam.jpg
plo25 - AA on KKx flop Quote
08-17-2014 , 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CreepyHawking
^^ yeah, min-raise: these AA will be a nice addition to our min-raising range in this spot. /faceplam.jpg
why do you think i suggested min raising these aces?
plo25 - AA on KKx flop Quote
08-17-2014 , 04:55 PM
^^ rather than me guessing, you can just say why you suggested it
plo25 - AA on KKx flop Quote
08-17-2014 , 08:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabonator
c/f, he has quads
Cheater
plo25 - AA on KKx flop Quote

      
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