Calling preflop is not 'that' against the norm. Plenty of players are weak enough to take the 'low variance' line. The 'low variance' line is of course better for the losing player, as they will get more poker out of their roll. (It's not reducing variance, variance is equal except with lower spr there are more decisions to flatten out the variance - as illusion)

If you do not 4b this hand then your 4b range will possibly only consist of AAJTds and AATTds+. So what you are really saying is about not having a 4b range, and the only rationale you have provided so far is to 'reduce variance'. You are not reducing variance by not 4bing. 4bing is reducing variance (and increasing volume). We are OOP and benefit greatly from the SPR reduction (due to the 60%+ preflop). The other guy benefits by only having to put a smaller amount of money ont he line, which gives him space to swim upstream. Of course you are still winning by calling, but when you have such a powerful gradient over your enemy and you do not push it then you are just atrocious. This is solved already but I do not really want to give a crash course into something so basic as the math of 4bing here is ridiculously better than flatting. Just consider what % of flops this hand has comfort. That comfort is significantly reduced by not 4bing. You have made no valid reason to state why flatting can be an option and suggesting not to 4b is somewhat malicious on a persons game. I would ****ing love it if my enemies were not raising their valuable assets. So much profit in plo comes out of these kind of aces, you will be very shocked as to how high the figure is.

It's not a battle, it is just embarrassing to be serious about advocating a flat preflop and I doubt anyone takes it seriously.

You should really have a 4b range between 2 and 5% here. 0-2% is absurd. So is having some weird cut like a wild 4b wtih 8877ds to balance your AAJTds

The only roomf or discussion preflop is 4b sizing, personally I bet less than pot as I like a slightly wider 4b range than 1:1 AA** : !AA**. PSB is jsut for stronger AA** and your premium kings, queens, QJ9T+. And 4bing A*** is usually always a bad move oop this deep.

One last thing. I need to emphasise that 'not flatting' Is not subjective. It is objective. your point of view is not relevant in objective matters such as 'do you raise AAQJds preflop closing action?' Of course you ****ing do. And if you don't then harsh words are needed to prevent you getting grinded down. But by all means go along with your subjection against wahat is solved. Delusion is what feeds the predators.

One more last thing. If you do not want to 4b ehre then you seriosuly need to consider droping stakes to where you are comfortable playing 4b pots oop with this stack depth.

Guys.. please stop this pre bull****. omaha is a postflop game so dont stuck in the first street because we have at least two another..

LOL yes I agree. We should all be bashing you for not betting on the flop!

Dingus is in much more need of help than OP. And I responded to flop/turn. No one has really extended discussion on these areas. And they are actually on the subjective scale. so it's not liek you are going to know what to ddo int his spot as it is villain dependant to huge degree. Unlike preflop. Which I can spend all day shouting in peoples faces if I had to. If I was to ever coach someone in real life and they had such bad habit as not 4b pre I would actually attatch electrode shock nodes to them and shock them whenever they flatted closing action.

I 4bet all day with this hand but I don't think its "fundamentally wrong" to not 4bet pre. In holdem, where aces are far better than the aces in PLO, flatting pre is a perfectly acceptable line to take in certain spots even though 4betting will always be standard. Some players sometimes play way too aggressively in 3bet pots compared to 4bet pots.

So I'm not sure why there's such an uproar by a mere suggestion of a preflop slowplay. I think it may be because players are so used to giving nitty advice when someone holds offsuit aces that they feel obligated to compensate by furiously advocating aggressive advice with double-suited aces.

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Anyway, even against an aggressive player, I prefer just betting flop (snap-shoving to a raise). There are too many weak one pair he might have that he might not bet with that we don't want to give a free card to. Its also not really a board he'll feel he can rep much on. I think our opponent has to be truly maniacal for us to be check/raising. As played turn is pretty tricky. If you're read is that he'll be betting his draws on the flop its kind of hard to imagine what he could be semibluffing with on the turn. So I think you have to make a read as to how often villain is pure-bluffing turn. Even for aggressive players at these stakes I feel that kind of play in a huge pot is fairly rare. So I'm OK with the turn fold, but just barely, since we still have so much equity.

Bet flop with these stacksizes for sure
he is checking behind so many hands he could call a bet with because he has to bet/fold equity and give up his positional advantage when you check/pot him
betting just gives you way too much value

as played on turn its kinda interesting
you want to get value for sure but than it sucks so hard to get potted it probally also depends a bit on how much he cares for money (like some 200 regs will be scared to put in 800$ light, some will not care cause they play higher usually or we9

probally work with the program jeans uses and look at how many Kxxx or drawy type hands there are that pay a bet compared to the stuff thats jamming on you and than decide if its worth it to bet turn

ah and flat pre cause we only have aaqjds

I think it's fundamentally wrong for at least a few reasons, most of which have always been brought up others.

True, but trapping preflop is usually more viable in NLHE because hot-and-cold equities are more static, 3-bets (and 4- and 5- and 6-bets) generally have significant fold equity, and each discrete hand combination plays a much larger role in board coverage.

Scenarios can arise in NLHE where you should never 5- or 6-bet KK-AA (or anything else) closing the action. I'm not sure if this ever happens with premium AAxy in PLO.

You could get the money in on every blank against this range; you should have >35% equity on all of them.

Against [8x/7x + OESD, bare wraps], offsuit sixes and nines will be gross.

as played against his value range we gotta call turn as we have direct odds

ProPokerTools Odds Oracle Results (2.21 Basic)
Omaha Hi, Generic syntax
Board - 7h8d3dKc
PLAYER_1 KK,((7K,8K,3K)!(77,88,33,KK))
PLAYER_2 AsQsAdJd
600000 trials (randomized)


All-in Equity

	Equity %	Wins Hi %	Ties Hi %	Wins Hi Count	Ties Hi Count
KK,((7K,8K,3K)!(77,8...	66.8396%	66.8305%	0.0182%	400983	109
AsQsAdJd	33.1604%	33.1513%	0.0182%	198908	109

that value range is not weighted and as it is not quite breakeven, profit is hugely pivotal on the ability to make correct shoves or folds.

one e.g weight would be kd7d which is enough. In vacuum shoving because we have to consider that his range has bluff in it in response to flop check, but as I hinted the flop check maybe seen as super strong and now KK is drooling.The notion of checking flop is dependent on quite a high cbet so something should be inferred by this not materialising.

This isn't AAxx. This is AAQJ DOUBLE SUITED!!This is a top 1% hand. To not 4-bet or 5-bet this pre is a disastrous mistake.

Pot/re-pot that flop. GII for christ's sake.

How in the world did we come up with a line that involves putting in money then folding this hand in a 4 bet pot. I don't hate the flop check but betting is standard. Only reason to check is expecting him to stab lightly. If I bet the turn it has no intention of folding. Check calling the turn after wiffing a flop ck raise could be considered however it seems very weak line on this board with this hand. Seems we should just bet this flop most always especially if our 4bet range has premium rundowns which it should.