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PLO20 Good flop - gii? PLO20 Good flop - gii?

09-11-2014 , 08:59 AM
We just ship this right?

Or do we play slower as he cant have draws we over draw?

iPoker - €0.20 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 3 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 98 BB (VPIP: 68.97, PFR: 45.98, 3Bet Preflop: 9.68, Hands: 97)
BB: 100 BB
Hero (BTN): 101.7 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K 5 J A

Hero raises to 3 BB, SB raises to 10 BB, fold, Hero calls 7 BB

Flop: (21 BB, 2 players) 3 K Q
SB bets 14.7 BB, Hero??
PLO20 Good flop - gii? Quote
09-11-2014 , 09:00 AM
SB stats are probs from heads up weve played, his 3b hands have been strong
PLO20 Good flop - gii? Quote
09-11-2014 , 09:36 AM
call
PLO20 Good flop - gii? Quote
09-11-2014 , 04:07 PM
I'm inclined to call in position and hopefully let him hang himself on the turn.
PLO20 Good flop - gii? Quote
09-11-2014 , 07:49 PM
given that we called PF, folding flop wouldn't really make any sense. Flops can't really get any better than this in a 3bet pot.
PLO20 Good flop - gii? Quote
09-11-2014 , 07:52 PM
hmm why are you talking about folding flop? No one else has mentioned it?
PLO20 Good flop - gii? Quote
09-12-2014 , 06:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czech Rays
call
What would you do on blanks and paired boards if he fires again?
PLO20 Good flop - gii? Quote
09-12-2014 , 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingandtheduck
hmm why are you talking about folding flop? No one else has mentioned it?
I'm sorry, I misread the OP. I thought you were just asking how to play the flop in general, but now I see you're asking if shipping > flatting.

I think I like shipping better than flatting, because there are some ugly turn cards, such as a 3, Q, 9 or A.

I'd rather just get the money in on the flop where I know our equity is always decent (plus fold equity).
PLO20 Good flop - gii? Quote
09-12-2014 , 12:47 PM
I don't mind jammin.
I don't think he has a FD here very often so the argument for trapping is kinda weak.
Plus we don't have a strong made hand atm and a hand like QJT9 has equity against us though we can get him to fold that often.
We also do have good FE against part of his range like naked AA, AK.
Wouid be nice to PJ that hand.
PLO20 Good flop - gii? Quote
09-12-2014 , 02:06 PM
if we ship is it better to not ship but make a small raise so we can bluff a small amount of time?
PLO20 Good flop - gii? Quote
09-12-2014 , 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by guimz
I don't mind jammin.
I don't think he has a FD here very often so the argument for trapping is kinda weak.
Plus we don't have a strong made hand atm and a hand like QJT9 has equity against us though we can get him to fold that often.
We also do have good FE against part of his range like naked AA, AK.
Wouid be nice to PJ that hand.
I doubt he folds QJT9, AK, AA given stats and spr. Any reason you don't think he has a fd often or just card removal?

I prefer calling just to give him the chance to do something silly ott, there aren't many turn cards that suck and we aren't really getting better to fold. We can get it in good vs some QJT type hands now but can likely still get money in on most turns vs those plus pick up value on turns he puts money in weak with something he would have folded
PLO20 Good flop - gii? Quote
09-13-2014 , 08:32 AM
Nah, don't call in this spot. You're in really good shape if you gii vs his range, but the think is, you ALSO love it if he folds!

Another reason is that you would like to balance you ship range here a bit. I personally ship here almost always if I hit any pair (+ smthn tiny, like backdoor FD,SD/ gutshot, etc.), but also with my stronger hands, like this one.
PLO20 Good flop - gii? Quote
09-14-2014 , 03:03 AM
I think this is a ship, but I think when he calls he's ahead if we do not improve. I only say that because you said his 3bet range is strong.

If it is that strong, I'm not sure, even in position, I want to call with my 3-cards-of-one-suit-Axxx hand.

As far as flatting versus shipping, I believe it depends on the player. If he's the kind of guy to stab flops and shut down on scary turns, I'd just flat and try to get him to fold the turns. If he's a guy who won't be folding his AAxx hands ever, then I say ship now with the most equity and force him to make a decision.

There are no turn cards that scare us since we're calling with the intent of improving on the turn. We're planning to bet to scare the mess out of him! But, that only works against a player who is thinking and capable of folding his AAxx hands. Should he have a hand like QJT9 and he gets there on the turn without the FD getting there, it's likely he'll put out a bet unless he also has a FD. Whether he bets or not probably depends on what he thinks about us so it's hard to discern in a vacuum.

But I would say, against a player who won't fold AAxx hands ship it. Against a player with a wider 3bet range and who can fold on later streets, I think you'll win more pre-showdown with just flatting here.
PLO20 Good flop - gii? Quote

      
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