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PLO10 : Decision Flop PLO10 : Decision Flop

05-26-2016 , 05:57 AM
Hi,
It's probably a very standard spot for you guys but since I'm starting plo I'd like to have some explanation on this kind of spot.

OTF we have 10 outs to nuts (spades and J). We have 25bb to put in a 50bb pot. But there is only 13 "really cool" turns (spades, J and 4) among the 45 possible turns (29% really cool cards).
OTT we would have a SPR~1 so we would need 33% eq to call a shove.

From your experiences, what is SB range here ? Sets, Top2 + draw ?
Since we have 35%eq against sets w no draw. Is that okay to peel flop and ship on nice turns ?

I made a mistake to gii here with a spr that high right ? But we can't consider fold this hand on this spot, can we ? We would be too much exploited. Or it is just better to x back flop ?

Additional questions :
-Would it be different if we had this hand + a pair (ex: AsQsT6 or AsQs6s5) ? Can we ship flop here ?
-On a 7c turn, would you call a shove ?

Winamax - €0.10 PL Hi (5 max) - Omaha Hi - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 40 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
Hero (CO): 103.5 BB
BTN: 54.8 BB (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
SB: 214.8 BB (VPIP: 42.86, PFR: 28.57, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 22)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 3 Q A 6

Hero raises to 3.5 BB, fold, SB calls 3 BB, BB calls 2.5 BB

Flop: (10.5 BB, 3 players) K 5 T
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 7 BB, SB raises to 31.5 BB, fold, Hero raises to 100 BB and is all-in, SB calls 68.5 BB

Turn: (210.5 BB, 2 players) 3

River: (210.5 BB, 2 players) K
PLO10 : Decision Flop Quote
05-26-2016 , 06:16 AM
This is a fold pre from CO imo. 4 handed on the button it's probably fine, though.

When SB x/r he's got every set, as well as 2 pair + draw type hands. Blocking the As and Qs means he's less likely to show up with combo draws and pair +fd type hands that you're doing well against.

Without running equities I think calling the turn is going to be a very marginal play - factoring in rake it may be -EV. Though, calling flop gives you easy turn decisions.

Shoving is losing a lot of money because you can assume on this board when he x/r he's happy to gii, so you have close to 0 fold equity and you've got a fairly weak draw with poor equity against made hands.

The only drawing hand I'm happily shipping flop with is wrap+nfd which is a favourite against naked sets.

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PLO10 : Decision Flop Quote
05-26-2016 , 07:31 AM
Call the x/r
PLO10 : Decision Flop Quote
05-26-2016 , 08:48 AM
Bet/call flop decide turns.
PLO10 : Decision Flop Quote
05-27-2016 , 05:30 AM
Usually folding pre unless I'm looking for variance.

Tend to check behind this a lot because we're not having more than 50% if we get checkraised so we don't want to see an all in on the flop and we can still try to buy the pot on the turn as we would also check behind our weak pairs on this flop a lot.

Villain has a set or two pair + draw here like always so we have close to 0 fold equity if we shove the flop.

Last edited by derjan; 05-27-2016 at 05:55 AM.
PLO10 : Decision Flop Quote
05-27-2016 , 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thsheriff
This is a fold pre from CO imo. 4 handed on the button it's probably fine, though.

When SB x/r he's got every set, as well as 2 pair + draw type hands. Blocking the As and Qs means he's less likely to show up with combo draws and pair +fd type hands that you're doing well against.

Without running equities I think calling the turn is going to be a very marginal play - factoring in rake it may be -EV. Though, calling flop gives you easy turn decisions.

Shoving is losing a lot of money because you can assume on this board when he x/r he's happy to gii, so you have close to 0 fold equity and you've got a fairly weak draw with poor equity against made hands.

The only drawing hand I'm happily shipping flop with is wrap+nfd which is a favourite against naked sets.

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If calling a non-pairing turn is -EV, shouldn't we fold to flop x/r because we can only continue on 10 turn cards?
PLO10 : Decision Flop Quote
05-27-2016 , 04:27 PM
4 is good for us too.
PLO10 : Decision Flop Quote
05-27-2016 , 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Yu
If calling a non-pairing turn is -EV, shouldn't we fold to flop x/r because we can only continue on 10 turn cards?
Sorry, I said calling the turn was marginal but I meant calling the flop x/r was marginal. Hero has about 34% vs the range I've assigned to villain, making the flop call profitable - I've heard the rake on winamax is pretty bad and obviously ssplo rake is bad, so it may actually be -ev.

Hero has really easy decisions on the turn; he has 11 nut outs (>33% of the deck), and he can make an easy fold on any cards that don't improve his hand, whereas villain pretty much has to gii no matter what comes on the turn. Calling and folding flop are really close but I'd favour calling.
PLO10 : Decision Flop Quote
05-27-2016 , 07:46 PM
Quote:
From your experiences, what is SB range here ? Sets, Top2 + draw ?
he could have kings up, set or combo draw. lots of different combo draws are possible. i like flop GII.
PLO10 : Decision Flop Quote
05-27-2016 , 11:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by derjan
Usually folding pre unless I'm looking for variance.

Tend to check behind this a lot because we're not having more than 50% if we get checkraised so we don't want to see an all in on the flop and we can still try to buy the pot on the turn as we would also check behind our weak pairs on this flop a lot.

Villain has a set or two pair + draw here like always so we have close to 0 fold equity if we shove the flop.
I'm nearly convinced you come on this forum to purposely troll the rest of us.

Just, no.
PLO10 : Decision Flop Quote
05-28-2016 , 12:01 AM
I fold this from the cutoff as well .
PLO10 : Decision Flop Quote
05-28-2016 , 04:55 AM
Ya fold pre
I think flop can go either way with bet or check, leaning towards betting but specifically checking a K high board is OK 3way vs a SB cc range imo
PLO10 : Decision Flop Quote
05-28-2016 , 05:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by z0mgtiltz
Ya fold pre
I think flop can go either way with bet or check, leaning towards betting but specifically checking a K high board is OK 3way vs a SB cc range imo
It's just like so easy to fold pre flop and not worry about spots like this.

Last edited by gaelichero2; 05-28-2016 at 06:00 AM. Reason: Wrong post
PLO10 : Decision Flop Quote
05-28-2016 , 06:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by z0mgtiltz
Ya fold pre
.
PLO10 : Decision Flop Quote
05-29-2016 , 04:11 AM
Okay, thank you all
PLO10 : Decision Flop Quote
05-29-2016 , 10:31 AM
you could maybe open this from the CO but seeing that the btn is 67/0 over 3 hands (sample size i know) but is also short stacking w/ a weird stack size, you could probably infer that they aren't a tight reg and you'd be playing this OOP in probably a MW spot so just fold. BTN would need to be way tighter
PLO10 : Decision Flop Quote

      
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