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Old 08-30-2011, 05:12 PM   #26
Furjanic
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Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

Posting to say that this was an excellent OP.

Definitely a lot to think about after reading through this topic as a whole.
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Old 08-30-2011, 10:54 PM   #27
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Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

i'm just starting out playing PLO, but one thing i would love to be able to do is not look at results, however the problem with this is that its difficult to avoid seeing your results when you go to review a session.

has anyone found a way to do this? i would be happy even if there was a way to only look at marked hands without seeing the results from a session, but as it stands as soon as i go into the sessions tab i can see my results.

i use HEM but would switch to HEM2 or PT3 if necessary.
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Old 08-31-2011, 01:59 AM   #28
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Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

It's getting late, but I will read everything tomorrow. Just started playing PLO and love it. Maybe tomorrow I'll hate it.
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Old 08-31-2011, 09:22 AM   #29
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Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirin View Post
i'm just starting out playing PLO, but one thing i would love to be able to do is not look at results, however the problem with this is that its difficult to avoid seeing your results when you go to review a session.

has anyone found a way to do this? i would be happy even if there was a way to only look at marked hands without seeing the results from a session, but as it stands as soon as i go into the sessions tab i can see my results.

i use HEM but would switch to HEM2 or PT3 if necessary.
you can always click "today" & "show only marked hands" from the "Hands" tab before you start a session. This way you will never see the actual result of the session / day. This obviously works only if you mark all the interesting hands during the session and don't miss anything.

I've been trying to pick up a habit only to look at the cashier or results at the end of each week, but I've been failing miserably. I look at my graph very frequently and emotions swing right along with the graph.
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Old 08-31-2011, 10:48 AM   #30
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Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

My friend showed me this article on the benefits of meditation: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0121144007.htm

I know i dont get so tilted and find it easier to quit after starting a few months ago.
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Old 08-31-2011, 03:17 PM   #31
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Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

Nice job Napsus.... Props for putting in Crashwhips mental game post which ranks only very slightly below Tommy Angelos Elements of Poker for reading when im in a rut.

I recently went through a major live downswing; link to post: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/15..****-dr-1080130/

Hope that can inspire some of you.

I'll repeat a quote that is very zen:

“I like to think of every decision point in every hand as the chance to make the perfect play” -Phil Galfond

I like this very famous poem too; Rudyard Kiplings 'If'

IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
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Old 08-31-2011, 05:08 PM   #32
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Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

Living in the moment is the simplest yet one of the hardest things to learn. But it's the greatest gift of all imo, once you crossed that certain threshold it's all about hard work and exercise (meditation).
It's awesome to see that many of you experienced this shift in consciousness as it is infinitely tough to get deeply unconscious people back on this track.
However, there is a very big "BUT..." and a lot of people fall for the trap ITT.
This thread is way tl;dr and it's a big problem, not because I'm lazy but because you are lazy. Getting information on something or reading stories about something is a very well disguised excuse of your subconscious to not DO it but instead read about it. It's like someone who wants to work out more and instead of working out reads countless articles on how to work out when he already knows what he should do.
In this case, being attentive and mindful is something your mind is not used to, it's a new state of mind. People favor old habits tho, so to protect itself from being reorganized the subconscious makes you post and read stories about monks etc.. That way it stays in the old state of mind. Stop reading and writing about this stuff, you know everything you need to know, and it's literally right here.
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Old 08-31-2011, 05:59 PM   #33
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Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

great gif
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Old 09-01-2011, 12:13 AM   #34
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Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

Quote:
Originally Posted by napsus View Post
you can always click "today" & "show only marked hands" from the "Hands" tab before you start a session. This way you will never see the actual result of the session / day. This obviously works only if you mark all the interesting hands during the session and don't miss anything.

I've been trying to pick up a habit only to look at the cashier or results at the end of each week, but I've been failing miserably. I look at my graph very frequently and emotions swing right along with the graph.
cool, thanks, i don't know why i didn't think of that. there's a great section in fooled by randomness about the difference between noise and information which makes me determined to not pay attention to short term results when i start playing PLO properly.
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Old 09-01-2011, 06:16 AM   #35
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Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

Quote:
Originally Posted by KrachBummEnte View Post
Living in the moment is the simplest yet one of the hardest things to learn. But it's the greatest gift of all imo, once you crossed that certain threshold it's all about hard work and exercise (meditation).
It's awesome to see that many of you experienced this shift in consciousness as it is infinitely tough to get deeply unconscious people back on this track.
However, there is a very big "BUT..." and a lot of people fall for the trap ITT.
This thread is way tl;dr and it's a big problem, not because I'm lazy but because you are lazy. Getting information on something or reading stories about something is a very well disguised excuse of your subconscious to not DO it but instead read about it. It's like someone who wants to work out more and instead of working out reads countless articles on how to work out when he already knows what he should do.
In this case, being attentive and mindful is something your mind is not used to, it's a new state of mind. People favor old habits tho, so to protect itself from being reorganized the subconscious makes you post and read stories about monks etc.. That way it stays in the old state of mind. Stop reading and writing about this stuff, you know everything you need to know, and it's literally right here.
while I agree with you in many ways, it's not so straightforward as you make it. Many people need to be pushed in a certain direction to get rolling. There's nothing wrong with reading about this stuff, there's certainly nothing wrong with writing about this stuff. Writing is a wonderful tool to organize your thoughts and ideas and to free up your mind from clutter (talking about writing in general now).

It takes 15-30min to read this short thread, it may take a week or two to read a book about mindfulness, then you can go on and find the way of living which works to best for you.
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Old 09-01-2011, 07:01 AM   #36
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Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

I didn't mean it's bad to write/read about it in general, but many people use it for an excuse though. I just want to say that you should pay attention whether you fall for this trap or not.
iirc the "Mystical Agreement" is from the Tao Tse Ching and it refers to not talking about the Tao. Those who talk about the Tao don't have it, those who have it don't talk about the Tao. This makes perfect sense, as you cannot describe the Tao and as soon as you try to you miss it.
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Old 09-01-2011, 12:21 PM   #37
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Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

Great idea for thread, this way all the good posts about mindfulness/life won't get buried in the lc threads, wp napsus
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Old 09-01-2011, 05:53 PM   #38
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Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

Quote:
Napsus's entire post
Great stuff man. Truly.

I'm really starting to realize how complicated of a game PLO really is, and not just on a game theory level. Also the heightened mental state one must posses to be successful in this crazy game.

great job
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Old 09-02-2011, 04:12 AM   #39
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Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

Quote:
Improve Every Moment
Post written by Leo Babauta.

I’m a big proponent of slowing down, simplifying, doing less, and being less busy … but what if you can’t?

What if your life can’t be made less busy — are you doomed to a life of anxiety and unhappiness?

No. I’m going to share with you a very simple tool that might just transform your life. It’s something I’ve been trying in the last few months, and I can attest that it works brilliantly.

This one little method will help you to:

* Be more present, so life doesn’t rush past you without you noticing.
* Enjoy every activity you do more, so life is better all the time.
* Feel more relaxed, so every day is as good as a vacation.
* Be ready to handle anything that comes your way.

Not bad for a very tiny method, no? Let’s dive in.
Busy vs. relaxed

Normally we have two different modes in life. There’s the busy of our everyday lives, and then there’s the relaxed mode, which happens when we have some unstructured time: vacation, a day at the beach, a spa getaway, some time in the park with the kids.

Relaxed mode is one where we perhaps think less and feel more. We just soak in the sun, the sounds, the sensations. This is a child-like time, because it’s the mode that young children are in the most. We do our best to train kids not to be like this, so they can be good workers when they grow up and serve our corporate masters.

And so we grow up to be in busy mode most of the week, and if we’re lucky we get a day or two, maybe only an hour or two of relaxed mode. When the Internet sucks us in, we have less relaxed mode because the Internet keeps us in our minds, and we forget about the physical world around us.

How can we change this? How can we bring the child-like relaxed, sensory mode back into our everyday lives, not just during breaks and meditation/yoga time and vacations?

It’s not that difficult, if you practice.
The Zen State

When we are in relaxed mode, we notice the sensations of the wind and sun, the sounds of water and laughter, the brilliant colors of nature, the smiles around us, the grass or sand between our toes. We are feeling instead of thinking. The sensations of our bodies flow into our minds, and it makes us relaxed, happy.

We can re-learn this mode of being with practice. Do it now. You’re reading a computer or mobile device screen, so your mind is in the world of the Internet … but your body is in the physical world. If you’re sitting, your butt can feel the chair. Your back might be a bit hunched. Your fingers are on a keyboard or mouse. Is the air around you cold or warm? Are there sounds you can notice? Is your jaw clenched? Notice your breathing.

When you put your focus into physcial sensations, you are entering relaxed mode instead of thinking mode. It’s not that you’re completely relaxed, but you’re in the same state of mind as the times you are relaxed, like yoga or the beach or lazing away a Sunday in bed.

Once you learn to do this, you can do it any time. In fact, all the time.

If you’re taking a shower, feel the water running down you, soak in the temperature and the sound of running water. If you’re eating, taste every little nuance of the food, smell the food, feel the texture in your mouth, feel the movement of your hand going to your mouth.

Do this as you work, as you talk on the phone or respond to emails or walk to a meeting or drive to an appointment, noticing the sensations on your skin, the colors around you, the sounds of humanity, your breath coming in and leaving you. Do this at home, as you do chores or prepare food or clean up or get ready for work. Do this throughout your day, and you will be in a constant state of relaxation and enjoyment.

It will transform everything you do, if you do it. It will turn busy-ness into being present, harriedness into enjoyment.

Life will be lived, instead of ignored.
.
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Old 09-02-2011, 09:16 AM   #40
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Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julebag View Post
Great stuff man. Truly.

I'm really starting to realize how complicated of a game PLO really is, and not just on a game theory level. Also the heightened mental state one must posses to be successful in this crazy game.

great job
this.

i've cut back to 2 tables from 4.

now i know 4 is nothign to lots on here, but it just frazzles my brain if too much happens too quick.

as in lose a few coolers/bad beats etc in short space of time.

i stop playing my game.

even at two i have too constantly talk to myself to keep my cool when things are going against me.

i'm just aiming for more quality, less quantity atm.

deep breathing and sitting up straight (as reccomended in crashwhips 500th post) really does help i find.
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Old 09-03-2011, 09:55 AM   #41
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Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

Quote:
Originally Posted by jipster View Post
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
Perfection.
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Old 09-03-2011, 10:26 AM   #42
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Thumbs up Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

For someone who plays a bit of SSPLO, has read countless threads/strategy posts/watched training videos etcetera, this a really, really refreshing & thought provoking thread. TY

This gets my vote to be added to the Guide to Small Stakes Pot Limit Omaha sticky

Cheers
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Old 09-03-2011, 10:36 AM   #43
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Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

by the way, I wanted to give a nod to someone who does outstanding work in this field. Jared Tendler has just written a book called "the mental game of poker", I've read about half of it...I'm not reading it very fast since I want all information and tips to sink in and think things through. I can already comfortably say that the book is nothing short of brilliant.

He also has a well on 2p2, check it out here

Thread about his book

He has some outstanding tips how to handle tilt whatever form it comes in.....I'm guessing many people will read his book and thread and be all hyped but remember that true change takes time, it's all about replacing a bad habit with a good one. Patience is virtue.
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Old 09-03-2011, 12:25 PM   #44
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Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

Jared's book has helped me sooo much in just my way of thinking and handling situations that arise not only in poker but in life as well. A must read for anyone who takes PLO seriously.
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Old 09-03-2011, 02:24 PM   #45
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Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

Since I started the thread and it's about PLO and life, I thought about sharing my current situation.

I've been mildly succesful in my life, making it to the top Finnish basketball league as the team captain and making it to a director level in an investment bank when I was 30 after only 3 years in the bank (the bank I work in doesn't have the standard ranking system, but I'm the equivalent of a director).

On Friday I burned out pretty bad, threw up in a garbage bin (out of stress) while talking to a business partner on the phone. This was the result of intense pressure I've been putting on myself for the last year. Investment banking can be pretty brutal, it's very results oriented, people are greedy and sometimes very cold. I feel like a fish on a dry land working in a bank.

So I'm at a crossroads. I have planned to quit at the bank next spring after bonuses (yes, I'm greedy as well). My plan is to devote time and effort to my girlfriend, friends, family and poker. They all are a big part of my life already (well, friends and family from 2,5k km away, but still), but I wanna make them even bigger since I work about 11-12 hrs per day on average. I don't hate my job, but I hate the fact that it's ruining my life.

The problem I have with PLO is that I expect everything to come very fast. I currently play plo50 deep and sometimes plo100 (I don't wanna play the 100bb tables because I'm not very fond of SS'ers). My goals are

-move up to plo100 by November/December
-play winning plo200 next summer
-make $30k in the next 12 months playing poker
-continue to improve my game continuously by reading forums, watching vids

(just checked that I bought HEM in May 2010, apparently that was the time when I started taking poker a little bit seriously, but really only this year)

All this would help me to realize my dream of quitting my job and having enough money to take 9-12 months off from all work, if I wanted to. Also, I wouldn't mind earning my living from PLO for the next few years.

Still I sometimes feel that I am not motivated enough, I don't feel like reviewing hands, I don't open tables during downswings because I'm afraid that I'll lose money again, taking me further from my dreams. I have trouble getting started...obviously the situation is worse in the evenings during weekdays when I'm tired and feel like I need to log in some hands. Then I end up browsing 2p2 and other sites for 2 hours and realize I need to go to bed so I won't be too tired at work the next day.

I would appreciate any tips how to keep on pushing towards realizing my dream. Are my goals unrealistic? Should I redefine them somehow? Are my expectations too high? What are the best steps for continuous learning, what kind of methods do you have on a daily basis to bring your game to a new level?

The funny thing is that I actually love to play PLO and feel so excited to learn it, but I still can't bring myself to do it always.

(please don't say it's a bad idea to leave such a job, heard that one too many times...I believe it will be a brilliant decision)

Thanks guys
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Old 09-03-2011, 02:31 PM   #46
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Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

Does jareds book comes only as hardcover or as ebook too?
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Old 09-03-2011, 02:46 PM   #47
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Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

ebook coming, check the thread, it's all there
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Old 09-03-2011, 03:13 PM   #48
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Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

I have btw some advice to your post... but im semidrunk right now and dont wanna type ****... I probably talk to you in skype tomorrow
Just bought the book btw. because I kinda liked the table of content...

Last edited by JustAmazing777; 09-03-2011 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 09-03-2011, 04:09 PM   #49
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Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

Don't have any good tips, just want to give you some encouragement. As I understand you watched the video of Steve Jobs I posted, quitting your job could well be the calligraphy class of your life.
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Old 09-03-2011, 05:15 PM   #50
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Re: ~ PLO and Life ~ The art of balance ~

The only advise I could give you is that I couldnt imagine having a job, while trying to beat the games over a decent sample. 4 years ago I also thought it was a brilliant idea to quit work and pursue poker, and I still do : )
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