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PLO 5 middle set in limped pot PLO 5 middle set in limped pot

07-30-2014 , 11:26 AM
Unknown opponent but I don't think he is that good since he limped UTG. I thought he is not on a draw since he just called the flop 3bet, maybe two pair 44xx.

PokerStars - $0.05 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BB): $5.58
UTG: $4.15
MP: $12.40
CO: $4.80
BTN: $9.24
SB: $5.88

SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has 5 9 9 2

UTG calls $0.05, fold, fold, BTN calls $0.05, fold, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.17, 3 players) 4 A 9
Hero bets $0.09, UTG raises to $0.43, fold, Hero raises to $1.45, UTG calls $1.02

Turn: ($3.07, 2 players) 7
Hero checks, UTG bets $1.40, Hero raises to $2.80, UTG calls $1.25 and is all-in

River: ($8.37, 2 players) Q
PLO 5 middle set in limped pot Quote
07-30-2014 , 01:05 PM
Don't discount AA from his range nor can you discount flushes, especially A high ones. 2 pair and 44 are far less likely especially when they decide to bet turn...
PLO 5 middle set in limped pot Quote
07-31-2014 , 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by h3avym3tal
Unknown opponent but I don't think he is that good since he limped UTG. I thought he is not on a draw since he just called the flop 3bet, maybe two pair 44xx.
probably the opposite. when you 3bet he thinks - oh he has a strong had but if i hit me flush i win and takes his monies! - and calls.
Flop is good obviously, turn sucks but since he has less than pot and he might still just be on a bluff or have weaker made hand I get it in as you did.
PLO 5 middle set in limped pot Quote
07-31-2014 , 11:38 AM
Its probably a fold on the turn, I don't think he has A4 or 44 often enough to make up for the fact that you're almost always up against a flush.

That said you're so close to getting odds to draw I don't really hate a call against a PLO5 unknown.
PLO 5 middle set in limped pot Quote
08-01-2014 , 11:44 AM
I wouldnt discount AAxx. Many guides say to limp trashy AAxx KKxx, but finally just calling your reraise is weird.

However! You shouldnt play your mid set so hard, it is OOP just a small pot hand. Check call flop. If turn hits flush you can bet out to represent it. If you get a call or raise on the turn, you can c/f and lose a small pot.
It is semi bad to go all in with everything you got without a flushdraw and just a mid set OOP. Get your value on better spots.
PLO 5 middle set in limped pot Quote
08-01-2014 , 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by terzi123
I wouldnt discount AAxx. Many guides say to limp trashy AAxx KKxx, but finally just calling your reraise is weird.

However! You shouldnt play your mid set so hard, it is OOP just a small pot hand. Check call flop. If turn hits flush you can bet out to represent it. If you get a call or raise on the turn, you can c/f and lose a small pot.
It is semi bad to go all in with everything you got without a flushdraw and just a mid set OOP. Get your value on better spots.
really?
once villain pots your lead OP, just jam pot it. prob no need to take any different sizing vs a potraise at plo5.
PLO 5 middle set in limped pot Quote
08-05-2014 , 05:07 AM
Why are you donking half pot on the flop? (serious question - not a criticism).
PLO 5 middle set in limped pot Quote
08-05-2014 , 07:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by papercuts
Why are you donking half pot on the flop? (serious question - not a criticism).
It is not a donkbet, its a limped pot...

if you want to bet the flop, bet bigger.
PLO 5 middle set in limped pot Quote
08-05-2014 , 09:58 AM
horrible turn card, don't quite have enough equity vs a flush to continue.

limping UTG is viable with some hands
PLO 5 middle set in limped pot Quote
08-05-2014 , 12:25 PM
Folding turn silly to me. If villain has a flush we make a profit if he calls like 70cent on boat rivers..
PLO 5 middle set in limped pot Quote
08-06-2014 , 05:25 PM
There are discounts to consider,

-Him limping trash-mid strength AA UTG
-1-3 outs taken by aces up + reverse implieds from the implieds you want
-We get bluffed out on river by non flush


ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
354,600 trials (Exhaustive)
board: A947
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
9h9d5d2d18.73% 66,4200
cc:a81.27% 288,1800

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
200,840 trials (Exhaustive)
board: A947
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
9h9d5d2d11.96% 23,99264
aa, cca7, a4, a9)88.04% 176,78464

ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
834,200 trials (Exhaustive)
board: A947
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
9h9d5d2d21.87% 182,4700
cc:60%78.13% 651,7300


Generally I see 18% which of course means it is pretty flat. So yeah it is correct that you can profit form the 1.25 behind. But it is a bit more complicated.
PLO 5 middle set in limped pot Quote
08-07-2014 , 10:10 AM
I think you can remove AA from his range entirely tbh due to his flop play. I'm not saying that flop action like this means it's never AA, I'm just saying that flop action like this at PLO5 means it's never AA.

I also think that "-We get bluffed out on river by non flush" is a moot argument since we are talking about the odds for calling turn vs a range that is massively weighed towards being a flush. I'm trying to articulate exactly why but can't come up with the proper way to write it out in English (Swedish too for that matter lol).

I see your concern and the range calculations and you might be right (I'm wrong pretty often ), I just don't think it's a good fold ott at plo5 for that price.
PLO 5 middle set in limped pot Quote
08-07-2014 , 10:27 AM
Edit 2: Need 24%, I'm an idiot. Quick Post amendments

Although it can swing both ways, some % of the time it is going to be weighted towards 11% opposed to 21% which is -7 opposed to +3

14/56-58, assuming he puts all his money in needs 24%

The weird thing is I remember doing this arrhythmic last time in my head and it appeared that we had implied odds but it seems that we don't? I've had **** all sleep so it's probably that but I just rechecked again nope, it looks like 14/58 default odds and 14/70 implieds.

If he does have bluffs in his range, which does happen, it is a further discount to a call/muck line. but that depends on the 3rd barrel or not.

Edit: I think i've done it backwards and reversed the pot odds. But I can't actually bring myself to do anything but sleep. Either it is a clear call or a clear muck.

3) Seems with undiscounted implieds we need 20%, so it is negative gradient when all is said and done even without discounts because his range is going to be closer to us having 11% than to 21% I generally overweight implied discounts because I have to include my own exploit-ability into a position.

Following this I guess you can argue for a call, call(shove) or call(check), line regardless of river just to leave the air in his range.

Last edited by Mt.FishNoob; 08-07-2014 at 10:37 AM.
PLO 5 middle set in limped pot Quote
08-07-2014 , 10:46 AM
Your post is a bit of a cluster****, mate. Lol.

I guess one thing I can admit is that if we call turn folding non-boating rivers seems really stupid, which would mean that the turn bet he makes isn't that cheap at all if we have to call all rivers too. This would obv make it more of a fold OTT than a call..
PLO 5 middle set in limped pot Quote
08-10-2014 , 07:25 AM
yeah, I was very tired that day.

there is between 3 and 6 % implieds available. This is the undiscounted value however. Now that I've had some sleep I can say that with confidence. It is only worth a call if his range is cc:60% and then it is only a slight profit. Some non 0 amount of time he bluffs us on river and some non 0 amount his range is closer to have us at 11%

So I'm pretty happy folding turn. Calling is shrug. Much wider edges can be foudn regulary and calling might aswell be a flip
PLO 5 middle set in limped pot Quote
08-10-2014 , 06:57 PM
betting bigger on flop lead, as played leading turn pot as never folding, praying for non flush hands to call, spiking FH when flush calls
PLO 5 middle set in limped pot Quote
08-11-2014 , 12:43 AM
Not sure about the flop 3B, I would probably do it, but if we ever get 4B it really sucks. Turn call/fold river is standard I think.
PLO 5 middle set in limped pot Quote

      
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