Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Small Stakes PL Omaha Discussion of 1/2 and below pot-limit Omaha poker

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-19-2017, 03:43 AM   #1
Eyespoker
stranger
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 7
PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

Hello, guys, I am a new player in poker, 5 months ago I got interested and decided to go full speed into it. Bought 18 books and quit my job, I decided that i could afford to give it 1 year of my life to see if I am any good at it.
I am fighting all my flaws and the stupidity that makes me make the same mistakes over and over, but in this occasion in particular I came to ask for advice regarding 1 particular spot.
Here we go:

Im playing PLO 25 on pokerstars.



    Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37728441

    BTN: $20.41 (81.6 bb)
    SB: $65.72 (262.9 bb)
    BB: $45.17 (180.7 bb)
    UTG: $11.69 (46.8 bb)
    MP: $31.85 (127.4 bb)
    Hero (CO): $46.59 (186.4 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is CO with 8 K 8 K
    UTG folds, MP calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.10, 2 folds, BB calls $0.85, MP calls $0.85

    Flop: ($3.40) 9 A 5 (3 players)
    BB checks, MP checks, Hero checks

    Turn: ($3.40) K (3 players)
    BB bets $3.26, MP folds, Hero raises to $11.25, BB raises to $37.01, Hero calls $25.76

    River: ($77.42) 3 (2 players)
    BB bets $7.06 and is all-in, Hero calls $7.06

    Spoiler:



    Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.



    This is a very common scenario for me. two hands before this one I had another where i turned 2nd nut flush on unpaired board when we were HU.
    Eff stacks were 100bb and SPR like 15 or so. V bets turn and I hold 2nd nut hand. There are no particular reasons to believe he has the A of clubs, he is BB and called my raise PF, so his range is wide.
    When he bets on the turn, I raise his bet and doom begins, he 3 bets pot and at this point I cant fold, because im not good enough.
    Thinking in retrospective I realize that most players in my limits wont bet anything but the nuts on a flush board, they will call you down with any other flush. They wont fold 3 high flush but they wont raise K high flush either.
    So I am pretty sure I made a clear mistake.


    In this hand that im sharing here, I have KK and V is SB, When I raise, he chooses to play OOP against 2 possible opponents with AA. Honestly i am fairly sure that more than 80% would 3bet AA from SB. The flop comes A 9 5 rainbow and SB is too confident that the turn wont change anything.
    Turn comes K and he bets 3/4 pot. I think that he just called PF and put him on AA or 99 or 9K. Basically I bite the hook. raise his bet and once again, my end begins.
    He ships it and its time to disregard odds and decide whether or not he has the AA, the one hand that had me drawing dead. It makes much more sense now that I see that the flop was so dry that he could afford to check.
    I made my mistake of the day, call and lose 100$ pot approx.

    Tell me please guys. My worst mistake is in calling the all in or raising his turn bet?
    I believe my mistake is calling the all in since my re raise would only be attacked by AA. He is not bluffing there, he is not going all in with 99 nor any other combination, so it was either straight up bluff or AA.
    My brain somehow feels that the 40 seconds or so that pokerstars gives you to consider your move lasts actually 2 seconds. At the time I was playing the hand I just used 38 seconds to say to myself, it can only be AA and then in the 2 last seconds I thought: Ey , he didnt 3 bet preflop. Boom! Gone.
    Eyespoker is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-19-2017, 04:24 AM   #2
    DoOrDoNot
    grinder
     
    Join Date: Apr 2010
    Posts: 468
    Re: PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

    He didn't 3 bet preflop so he's less likely to have aces on the turn. As played it's fine totally fine he has worse made hands and turned draws and even some sophisticated bluffs there. I prefer to bet the flop. We open ourselves up to be bluffed on basically 100% of turns by checking and we can't call. However this seems a good flop to check back with nut hands as well sometimes like top and middle set if you're gonna check back kings Overall though I like betting better. One and done.

    Make a note he flats AAss oop and move on.
    DoOrDoNot is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-19-2017, 04:31 AM   #3
    tofurocks
    grinder
     
    tofurocks's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Sep 2015
    Location: Got ten fingers but only use one
    Posts: 690
    Re: PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

    What books did you buy
    tofurocks is online now   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-19-2017, 04:57 AM   #4
    horseofhell
    journeyman
     
    horseofhell's Avatar
     
    Join Date: May 2015
    Location: Micro PLO rake is unbeatable
    Posts: 361
    Re: PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

    Go get a job
    horseofhell is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-19-2017, 05:39 AM   #5
    Eyespoker
    stranger
     
    Join Date: May 2017
    Posts: 7
    Re: PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tofurocks View Post
    What books did you buy
    http://imgur.com/00zUxIf
    Eyespoker is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-19-2017, 05:43 AM   #6
    horseofhell
    journeyman
     
    horseofhell's Avatar
     
    Join Date: May 2015
    Location: Micro PLO rake is unbeatable
    Posts: 361
    Re: PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

    "And then he told me... I bought some poker books that will help my poker game"

    horseofhell is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-19-2017, 05:48 AM   #7
    Eyespoker
    stranger
     
    Join Date: May 2017
    Posts: 7
    Re: PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DoOrDoNot View Post
    He didn't 3 bet preflop so he's less likely to have aces on the turn. As played it's fine totally fine he has worse made hands and turned draws and even some sophisticated bluffs there. I prefer to bet the flop. We open ourselves up to be bluffed on basically 100% of turns by checking and we can't call. However this seems a good flop to check back with nut hands as well sometimes like top and middle set if you're gonna check back kings Overall though I like betting better. One and done.

    Make a note he flats AAss oop and move on.

    Thank you for your comment and advise, the fact that i didnt bet on the flop is probably influenced by the fact that Im on the worst downswing since I started and its affecting my confidence and my aggressiveness. I lost 11 bi in 25nl, No matter what % of winning I have at the moment of shipping the house I'll always lose. I lost with 90%, 70%, 47%, 75%.
    I started with 20 dollars, took it to 700 and in the last 3 days lost 275 to end up with 425. I dont think I was great before but I dont think either that im all of the sudden the worst player ever.
    Eyespoker is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-19-2017, 05:52 AM   #8
    Eyespoker
    stranger
     
    Join Date: May 2017
    Posts: 7
    Re: PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by horseofhell View Post
    "And then he told me... I bought some poker books that will help my poker game"

    Is this just plain trolling or you trully believe that books wont help a players game at all?
    Eyespoker is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-19-2017, 06:00 AM   #9
    z0mgtiltz
    Carpal \'Tunnel
     
    z0mgtiltz's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Mar 2009
    Location: GetDatSzechuan McNuggetSauce
    Posts: 9,955
    Re: PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

    I think he just has AA 100% of the time
    z0mgtiltz is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-19-2017, 06:09 AM   #10
    tofurocks
    grinder
     
    tofurocks's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Sep 2015
    Location: Got ten fingers but only use one
    Posts: 690
    Re: PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Eyespoker View Post
    Is this just plain trolling or you trully believe that books wont help a players game at all?
    Not trolling
    Maybe theory of poker is kinda useful
    Also I would pick one game type and stick with it especially if you aren't having success in any
    tofurocks is online now   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-19-2017, 06:27 AM   #11
    SolarAU
    old hand
     
    SolarAU's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2015
    Location: popping bottles w/ the boys
    Posts: 1,288
    Re: PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

    Hand doesn't look bad to me bit of a cooler considering BB flat called PF eliminating a lot of his AAxx combos and I can see some 2p+FD/SD like A9xxcc or set type hands taking the same line, unlucky buddy.
    SolarAU is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-19-2017, 06:28 AM   #12
    Eyespoker
    stranger
     
    Join Date: May 2017
    Posts: 7
    Re: PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tofurocks View Post
    Not trolling
    Maybe theory of poker is kinda useful
    Also I would pick one game type and stick with it especially if you aren't having success in any
    To be honest, I bought them when I knew literally nothing. Now I can tell you that books in general feel much less mind blowing than some analysis I read on this forum or hands breakdowns by Doug Polk, Jonathan Little, Alec Torrelli or Daniel Negreanu, to name some.
    I love this game because I find it intellectually limitless, there is room for so much reasoning, and looking backwards everything fits, the problem is that sometimes I cant see it when im in the situation.
    Out of all the books I read so far my favorite book so far is Online holdem 6max by Harrington. Its very good. Others are not as good.
    Eyespoker is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-19-2017, 06:30 AM   #13
    Eyespoker
    stranger
     
    Join Date: May 2017
    Posts: 7
    Re: PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolarAU View Post
    Hand doesn't look bad to me bit of a cooler considering BB flat called PF eliminating a lot of his AAxx combos and I can see some 2p+FD/SD like A9xxcc or set type hands taking the same line, unlucky buddy.
    Thank you man, I appreciate it!
    Eyespoker is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-19-2017, 06:42 AM   #14
    tofurocks
    grinder
     
    tofurocks's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Sep 2015
    Location: Got ten fingers but only use one
    Posts: 690
    Re: PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Eyespoker View Post
    Daniel Negreanu
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Eyespoker View Post
    so far my favorite book so far is Online holdem 6max by Harrington. Its very good. Others are not as good.
    Oh man. Good luck bro.
    tofurocks is online now   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-19-2017, 09:04 AM   #15
    joewatch54
    newbie
     
    Join Date: Jun 2012
    Posts: 42
    Re: PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

    Looks standard. Sometimes you get coolered.

    Make sure to analyze your hands after each session, especially 3b / 4b decisions and big pots, of course.
    joewatch54 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-19-2017, 09:16 AM   #16
    Eyespoker
    stranger
     
    Join Date: May 2017
    Posts: 7
    Re: PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by joewatch54 View Post
    Looks standard. Sometimes you get coolered.

    Make sure to analyze your hands after each session, especially 3b / 4b decisions and big pots, of course.
    Thank you buddy. I'll make sure I do. I actually sit out after every big hand and analyze it. Even after some big hands where I am not involved, It also helps to take notes of their tendencies. Right now I am up $125, I came back a bit.
    Noticed that I lose a lot of money in two types of scenarios. Big bluff misreading a hand, or refusing to just concede the pot, and calls.
    I dont know about bigger limits but the bluff/value ratio in 25PLO is something like 5/95%.

    Last edited by Eyespoker; 05-19-2017 at 09:17 AM. Reason: typing error
    Eyespoker is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-19-2017, 06:55 PM   #17
    DoOrDoNot
    grinder
     
    Join Date: Apr 2010
    Posts: 468
    Re: PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Eyespoker View Post
    Thank you buddy. I'll make sure I do. I actually sit out after every big hand and analyze it. Even after some big hands where I am not involved, It also helps to take notes of their tendencies. Right now I am up $125, I came back a bit.
    Noticed that I lose a lot of money in two types of scenarios. Big bluff misreading a hand, or refusing to just concede the pot, and calls.
    I dont know about bigger limits but the bluff/value ratio in 25PLO is something like 5/95%.
    Remember there is a ton of variance in PLO. Try not to be results oriented. You will play perfectly sometimes and lose many buyins. You will also play ****ty and win many buyins. Focus on playing your best at all times and improving your worst performance is the only way you will win many buyins over your lifetime.
    DoOrDoNot is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-19-2017, 08:14 PM   #18
    tofurocks
    grinder
     
    tofurocks's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Sep 2015
    Location: Got ten fingers but only use one
    Posts: 690
    Re: PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Eyespoker View Post
    the bluff/value ratio in 25PLO is something like 5/95%.
    You might be calling in the wrong spots lol
    tofurocks is online now   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-19-2017, 09:25 PM   #19
    Ai Ri Reis
    enthusiast
     
    Join Date: Aug 2012
    Posts: 60
    Re: PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

    nh, sometimes its just your turn to die..

    you cant fold 2nd nuts here...
    Ai Ri Reis is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-20-2017, 12:20 AM   #20
    Adebisi
    veteran
     
    Adebisi's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2006
    Posts: 2,749
    Re: PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

    Quote:
    Hello, guys, I am a new player in poker, 5 months ago I got interested and decided to go full speed into it. Bought 18 books and quit my job, I decided that i could afford to give it 1 year of my life to see if I am any good at it.
    I am fighting all my flaws and the stupidity that makes me make the same mistakes over and over, but in this occasion in particular I came to ask for advice regarding 1 particular spot.
    Here we go:

    Im playing PLO 25 on pokerstars.



    Hand History
    Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37728441

    BTN: $20.41 (81.6 bb)
    SB: $65.72 (262.9 bb)
    BB: $45.17 (180.7 bb)
    UTG: $11.69 (46.8 bb)
    MP: $31.85 (127.4 bb)
    Hero (CO): $46.59 (186.4 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is CO with 8 K 8 K
    UTG folds, MP calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.10, 2 folds, BB calls $0.85, MP calls $0.85

    Flop: ($3.40) 9 A 5 (3 players)
    BB checks, MP checks, Hero checks

    Turn: ($3.40) K (3 players)
    BB bets $3.26, MP folds, Hero raises to $11.25, BB raises to $37.01, Hero calls $25.76

    River: ($77.42) 3 (2 players)
    BB bets $7.06 and is all-in, Hero calls $7.06

    Spoiler:







    This is a very common scenario for me. two hands before this one I had another where i turned 2nd nut flush on unpaired board when we were HU.
    Eff stacks were 100bb and SPR like 15 or so. V bets turn and I hold 2nd nut hand. There are no particular reasons to believe he has the A of clubs, he is BB and called my raise PF, so his range is wide.
    When he bets on the turn, I raise his bet and doom begins, he 3 bets pot and at this point I cant fold, because im not good enough.
    I've long wondered what the hell is going through my opponents head when I get raised off a nut flush blocker bluff.

    First hand is a cooler. 2nd hand is lighting money on fire.
    Adebisi is online now   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-20-2017, 12:48 AM   #21
    joewatch54
    newbie
     
    Join Date: Jun 2012
    Posts: 42
    Re: PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

    Flush over flush is pretty common in PLO.

    At the micros, I think people raise their 2nd NF to "see where they are at", and it also works to get people off the NF bluff. You will notice they don't raise full pot.
    joewatch54 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-20-2017, 07:08 AM   #22
    tofurocks
    grinder
     
    tofurocks's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Sep 2015
    Location: Got ten fingers but only use one
    Posts: 690
    Re: PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Adebisi View Post
    I've long wondered what the hell is going through my opponents head when I get raised off a nut flush blocker bluff.
    He had no particular reason to believe villain had the ace of clubs
    tofurocks is online now   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-21-2017, 01:28 AM   #23
    lowcarbon
    newbie
     
    Join Date: Jan 2012
    Posts: 44
    Re: PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

    Way you played is 99% correct. (rest 1%? I would shove on the turn)

    Unless it is 300, 400, even deeper stack, I mean just below 200bb deep, it is EASY All-in on the turn. If you have specific read on the villan, which is his tendency of flatting AA, you could play cautiously. In very this hand, it is quite natural AAxx is excluded from his range. move on.

    Even Phil Galfond, many other legends of PLO would say "Here, it is unlikely for him to have AA" if they are streaming/recording their session, and facing the same result for sure.
    lowcarbon is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-21-2017, 11:22 PM   #24
    JkSiddall
    newbie
     
    Join Date: Sep 2016
    Location: Getting crushed at the micros
    Posts: 41
    Re: PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

    Get a RIO sub and watch Tom Chambers theory video series, very informative stuff on there and will improve your game 10x more than some ancient books.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tofurocks View Post
    He had no particular reason to believe villain had the ace of clubs
    Why you trolling him so much? Guy just wants some constructive input...
    JkSiddall is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 05-22-2017, 06:46 AM   #25
    Grethe
    adept
     
    Grethe's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Aug 2011
    Location: Waiting for the heater
    Posts: 1,127
    Re: PLO 25 Bad decisions. Tilt. Downswing.

    PLOL in 2017: Getting trolled by the PLO10-warriors tofurocks and horseofhell....
    Grethe is offline   Reply With Quote

    Reply
          

    Thread Tools
    Display Modes

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off


    Forum Jump


    All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:22 PM.


    Powered by vBulletin®
    Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
    Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
    Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
     
     
    Poker Players - Streaming Live Online