**The Official SSPLO Stats Thread**

[Kingandtheduck]

Anyone care to have a look at these?

[LazurusLong2]

Originally Posted by breytex

Hi :-)

I am playing PLO10 in Ipoker for about 3 weeks now,
and I am not really happy with my performance.

I am playing 6 tables with HM, and I got a pretty decent rb-deal.
I dont know any players to ask them simple questions,
so I have to post them here.

Please dont be to hard, I just started to learn the game (played 2 years holdem, up to nl50 16 tableing, before.)

Stats:

Spoiler:

Vpip?
pfr?
3bet?
WTSD?
W$SD?

Graph:

Spoiler:

I think my non-showdown-winnings are horrible,
but I dont really know what to do against.
Play less hands oop?
cbet / double-barrel more or less?

Position:

Spoiler:

I think I do defend to mutch out of sb / bb,
what handrange you would me recommend to defend with?
What do you think about my VPIPs in certain positions?
Do I complete to mutch?
What handrange you would recommend me to complete with out of the sb?

I dont really wanna nit,
I do want to get to plo50 / plo100 really quick.
So I am not looking for the perfect stats/game (atm),
I am looking for the "best" way to get over plo10 (cause the traffic on ipoker is horrible).

Here are recent Hand-examples of my sessions:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/38.../#post31271412
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/38.../#post31271479
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/38.../#post31271578
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/38...layed-1160253/

Where can I find FREE session-review-videos on plo10 - plo200 ?
What content do you recommend to crush plo10 asap?
Do you think that playing 6 tables is to much?
Which number of Tables would you recommend to get over plo10?
Sorry I dont have 10k hands for my stats,
but atm I have the feeling, that i cant win a session anymore :-(
I am looking forward to any help :-)

Thanks in advance!
/ breytex

Definitely completing from the sb too much. Could be a function passive play in front of you though. Still, if you have a hand that you want to play from the sb, raise and thin the field. If you find that you can't thin the field, you have to play hands that play well multiway and that do well with a lot of money aleady in the pot. Nutty draws like nfd, good rundowns, and probably can set mine more. Big pairs are fine, but as set mining hands if it's going to be multiway.

You are not playing positionally aware. Early, middle and cutoff have almost identical preflop stats. You need to open up as it gets closer to the button, and the button should be around 35-40% opening.

Position is really important in PLO as you will find yourself with top set on a 2 flush board, bet the flop, bet the turn, river brings the flush. If you are oop, you are going to be in a position of either checking and giving up value to a 2 pair hand or middle set, or you will bet and get raised. Being able to check behind with non nut hands is huge in PLO because the nuts can change on every street. Since villain will give up value with the nuts if they don't bet the river, they will have to tell you if they have a good enough hand to bet. We can make an informed decision with position. So play position.

Went to showdown seems reasonable, but might be a little high in aggregate.

I would say to drop to 4 tables. I know you want to get past PLO10 as fast as possible, but there is a lot to learn about PLO, and it's not necessarily going to be as fast as you would like.

Also, PLO tends to make people play much more straight forwardly because of all the possible draws. Use this information when you are deep, have two pair on a wet board and you lead, someone calls, then the third player shoves. You are never good and unless you have redraws to nutty hands, you are going to be best off just folding. Sometimes they may both be on draws, but if they are raising, their draws are at least a flip with your hand and the times they have a set leaves you with about 15% equity.

FWIW

[buckyohare1985]

Originally Posted by Kingandtheduck

Anyone care to have a look at these?

Open up preflop range a bit. 13% PFR is too tight
3 bet more and call 3bets more esp in position. u are at less than 3% 3bet, id aim for closer to 10%. Prob pretty easy to play against you in 3bet pots because you always have AA or premium broadway and you look like you are giving up post flop alot so people will likely float your cbets alot and steal off you when you give up on turn or river.

Your red line suggests you are a bit tight post. Not barreling enough and / or folding too much. you prob give up alot when 1 bet is called whereas sometimes betting again will win hand without showdown and improve your red line a little.

[Kingandtheduck]

Originally Posted by buckyohare1985

Open up preflop range a bit. 13% PFR is too tight
3 bet more and call 3bets more esp in position. u are at less than 3% 3bet, id aim for closer to 10%. Prob pretty easy to play against you in 3bet pots because you always have AA or premium broadway and you look like you are giving up post flop alot so people will likely float your cbets alot and steal off you when you give up on turn or river.

Your red line suggests you are a bit tight post. Not barreling enough and / or folding too much. you prob give up alot when 1 bet is called whereas sometimes betting again will win hand without showdown and improve your red line a little.

ok thanks for your input, think my PFR has increased since i started playing, ive moved up to PLO25 and its naturally more aggressive, i still find 3b spots hard to find, basically hate 3b out of the blinds and pretty much given up trying. I feel like my game is super straight forward and im almost never bluffing, although i do barrell but always with strong equity, i seem to be winning thou but i do feel like getting more aggressive would be more profitable, especially if i want to play higher eventually.

[realsheesha]

Originally Posted by realsheesha

Thx for moving napsus. I wasn't aware of the existence of this thread. After browsing it a bit I noticed most people post their stats by position. Hadn't even noticed this function before (Never really had need for tracking software tbh).

Anyway... I guess someone is leaking dollars from the SB lol...

Originally Posted by realsheesha

Picked up Cash game Omaha recently. Just wondering how these stats look, aside from the diabolical 6.66BB/100

It's 6max

Anyone care to comment on these?

[LazurusLong2]

Originally Posted by realsheesha

Anyone care to comment on these?

Some of the stats I am not familiar with. What is PF4 and PFF3 and PFF4? I assume PF3 means 3bet, but if PF4 means 4 bet, I can't imagine 4betting 21% from the sb and only 3% from the button. I know it takes a while for these stats to converge, but that just seems out of whack.

Too high from sb as you stated and too low from the button and cutoff. Wtsd is reasonable but a little low. This stat is consistent with your pre flop vpip and pfr, meaning you are a little tight and may give up too often.

If you can get river call efficiency stat, that will tell you if you need too good of a hand to call with. If it is too high, you are probably folding hands that are winners too often.


What is your flop fold to cbet and turn fold to cbet? These stats tie into the wtsd stat as well and if too high, will make your wtsd too low.

Weird that your $ won from UTG and Co are way lower than from MP and Btn. Assume 2 or 3 allins that went to villain instead of you. That happens if you are allin b4 the river, but if you are calling shoves and losing frequently, think about why you are calling. Doesn't look like you are a station though so probably just variance.



If you want to answer the questions about the stats I don't know about, might be helpful...

Overall looks good, but probably need to call a few more rivers. This may sound inconsistent with the advice above about calling shoves, but it's really a different situation where you may be getting good odds with medium strength hands and are folding. Sometimes you have to call down with medium strength hands and the time to do it is when the betting action prior to the river doesn't make sense. Just take your time and think to yourself if what happened earlier makes sense with the river bet.

[breytex]

Originally Posted by breytex

Hi :-)

I am playing PLO10 in Ipoker for about 3 weeks now,
and I am not really happy with my performance.

I am playing 6 tables with HM, and I got a pretty decent rb-deal.
I dont know any players to ask them simple questions,
so I have to post them here.

Please dont be to hard, I just started to learn the game (played 2 years holdem, up to nl50 16 tableing, before.)

Stats:

Spoiler:

Vpip?
pfr?
3bet?
WTSD?
W$SD?

Graph:

Spoiler:

I think my non-showdown-winnings are horrible,
but I dont really know what to do against.
Play less hands oop?
cbet / double-barrel more or less?

Position:

Spoiler:

I think I do defend to mutch out of sb / bb,
what handrange you would me recommend to defend with?
What do you think about my VPIPs in certain positions?
Do I complete to mutch?
What handrange you would recommend me to complete with out of the sb?

I dont really wanna nit,
I do want to get to plo50 / plo100 really quick.
So I am not looking for the perfect stats/game (atm),
I am looking for the "best" way to get over plo10 (cause the traffic on ipoker is horrible).

Here are recent Hand-examples of my sessions:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/38.../#post31271412
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/38.../#post31271479
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/38.../#post31271578
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/38...layed-1160253/

Where can I find FREE session-review-videos on plo10 - plo200 ?
What content do you recommend to crush plo10 asap?
Do you think that playing 6 tables is to much?
Which number of Tables would you recommend to get over plo10?
Sorry I dont have 10k hands for my stats,
but atm I have the feeling, that i cant win a session anymore :-(
I am looking forward to any help :-)

Thanks in advance!
/ breytex

Originally Posted by LazurusLong2

Definitely completing from the sb too much. Could be a function passive play in front of you though. Still, if you have a hand that you want to play from the sb, raise and thin the field. If you find that you can't thin the field, you have to play hands that play well multiway and that do well with a lot of money aleady in the pot. Nutty draws like nfd, good rundowns, and probably can set mine more. Big pairs are fine, but as set mining hands if it's going to be multiway.

You are not playing positionally aware. Early, middle and cutoff have almost identical preflop stats. You need to open up as it gets closer to the button, and the button should be around 35-40% opening.

Position is really important in PLO as you will find yourself with top set on a 2 flush board, bet the flop, bet the turn, river brings the flush. If you are oop, you are going to be in a position of either checking and giving up value to a 2 pair hand or middle set, or you will bet and get raised. Being able to check behind with non nut hands is huge in PLO because the nuts can change on every street. Since villain will give up value with the nuts if they don't bet the river, they will have to tell you if they have a good enough hand to bet. We can make an informed decision with position. So play position.

Went to showdown seems reasonable, but might be a little high in aggregate.

I would say to drop to 4 tables. I know you want to get past PLO10 as fast as possible, but there is a lot to learn about PLO, and it's not necessarily going to be as fast as you would like.

Also, PLO tends to make people play much more straight forwardly because of all the possible draws. Use this information when you are deep, have two pair on a wet board and you lead, someone calls, then the third player shoves. You are never good and unless you have redraws to nutty hands, you are going to be best off just folding. Sometimes they may both be on draws, but if they are raising, their draws are at least a flip with your hand and the times they have a set leaves you with about 15% equity.

FWIW

Thank you for your analysis :-)
What would a common vpip, pfr, 3bet be look like, to win on plo10 ?
I played 29/18/7 yesterday, and it felt really lose...
What do you think :-) ?
Dropped to 4 Tables by the way,
but my non-showdownwinnings are still not getting better.
What to do to improve this?
More or less c-betting?
More borderline-shoving?

[realsheesha]

Originally Posted by LazurusLong2

Some of the stats I am not familiar with. What is PF4 and PFF3 and PFF4? I assume PF3 means 3bet, but if PF4 means 4 bet, I can't imagine 4betting 21% from the sb and only 3% from the button. I know it takes a while for these stats to converge, but that just seems out of whack.

Too high from sb as you stated and too low from the button and cutoff. Wtsd is reasonable but a little low. This stat is consistent with your pre flop vpip and pfr, meaning you are a little tight and may give up too often.

If you can get river call efficiency stat, that will tell you if you need too good of a hand to call with. If it is too high, you are probably folding hands that are winners too often.


What is your flop fold to cbet and turn fold to cbet? These stats tie into the wtsd stat as well and if too high, will make your wtsd too low.

Weird that your $ won from UTG and Co are way lower than from MP and Btn. Assume 2 or 3 allins that went to villain instead of you. That happens if you are allin b4 the river, but if you are calling shoves and losing frequently, think about why you are calling. Doesn't look like you are a station though so probably just variance.



If you want to answer the questions about the stats I don't know about, might be helpful...

Overall looks good, but probably need to call a few more rivers. This may sound inconsistent with the advice above about calling shoves, but it's really a different situation where you may be getting good odds with medium strength hands and are folding. Sometimes you have to call down with medium strength hands and the time to do it is when the betting action prior to the river doesn't make sense. Just take your time and think to yourself if what happened earlier makes sense with the river bet.

Thanks.

PF4 is preflop 4Bet, PFF3 is Preflop Fold to 3Bet, PFF4 is Preflop fold to 4Bet.

Looks like PFF3 is only about the times I already raised myself and get 3Bet, so on the SB this would only be situations in which I get limp-reraised.

I'm afraid I can't find those other stats you ask about.

I'm using Free Pokerdatabase (fpdb).

I think the reason my PF4 on BTN is this low, is because I will probably prefer to call and play in position, and OOP I'll usually just jam or fold pf.

[LazurusLong2]

Originally Posted by breytex

Thank you for your analysis :-)
What would a common vpip, pfr, 3bet be look like, to win on plo10 ?
I played 29/18/7 yesterday, and it felt really lose...
What do you think :-) ?
Dropped to 4 Tables by the way,
but my non-showdownwinnings are still not getting better.
What to do to improve this?
More or less c-betting?
More borderline-shoving?

The vpip of 29 isn't too loose but the 18 pfr is too low. Shoot for 24 or so. 3bet around 10-13% if the table is folding often. Otherwise, stay lower. C-bet can vary from 60-80%. Depending on your tolerance for firing another barrel, your nsd winnings will remain in a downward path. Your non showdownwinnings will go up when you double and triple barrel, but also look at your checking range on the flop. If you are always c/calling or c/folding, look for spots where you can c/raise. C/r is a really strong line and you can do it for value if villain is likely to cbet often. Occasionally, c/raise bluff, preferably on a dry flop. Don't let the fact that the bluff doesn't always work keep you from doing it. Getting caught bluffing won't help your nsd winnings, but it will get you called down more often when you have the nuts.

Also, if you check and it goes check behind, you can sometimes lead the turn with air especially on a blank. Here you are repping a 2 pair hand that was looking for a blank turn to bet.

Thin value bets on the river are similar to c/r bluffing. Sometimes you will get called down, but it will make villains have to call you down more often and if your value bets are more frequent than your bluffs, overall your winrate should go up. Although hard to do, try to make thin value bets on smaller pots and strong value bets on bigger pots. Doesn't always work out, but the advantage is obvious.

GL

[LazurusLong2]

Originally Posted by realsheesha

Thanks.

PF4 is preflop 4Bet, PFF3 is Preflop Fold to 3Bet, PFF4 is Preflop fold to 4Bet.

Looks like PFF3 is only about the times I already raised myself and get 3Bet, so on the SB this would only be situations in which I get limp-reraised.

I'm afraid I can't find those other stats you ask about.

I'm using Free Pokerdatabase (fpdb).

I think the reason my PF4 on BTN is this low, is because I will probably prefer to call and play in position, and OOP I'll usually just jam or fold pf.

Ok the PFF numbers make sense now. Depending on the hand type, calling in position is good, but if you have a hand like QsTs9c8d IP, I would still shove because our fd isn't nutty and we won't know whether we have the best hand on the river. IP we have more info for sure, but if the SPR is low and we hit the flop, we can just get it in and not worry about making a mistake.

[pureklas]

What's a solid loss rate SB and BB in bb?

[Envoy222]

Just finished my 1st 10k hands of lolmaha. I know the wr is ridic high but variance & all that, anybody spot anything?



Thanks.

[LazurusLong2]

Originally Posted by Envoy222

Just finished my 1st 10k hands of lolmaha. I know the wr is ridic high but variance & all that, anybody spot anything?



Thanks.

Positional awareness is good. Your c-bet % from the blinds is in line with your strength from those positions. Turn cbet seems a little low, and yet your aggression numbers are high. WTSD% is about right, but river call efficiency is way too high, indicating you need a very strong hand to call. I suspect that you almost always have the lead when you play a hand and don't really bluffcatch much.

The bigblind is killing you, although that may just two or three big hands gone bad.

Your winrate is impressive. Keep doing what you're doing. The winrate will likely settle into something more reasonable with a bigger sample size. Don't let whatever happens get inside your head. As you said, variance may be helping you right now and that will change over time. It is easy to start to wonder about your play when that happens, but just realize that it's just normal.

That being said, maybe you are the next new sensation...

Good Luck.

[Envoy222]

Originally Posted by LazurusLong2

Positional awareness is good. Your c-bet % from the blinds is in line with your strength from those positions. Turn cbet seems a little low, and yet your aggression numbers are high. WTSD% is about right, but river call efficiency is way too high, indicating you need a very strong hand to call. I suspect that you almost always have the lead when you play a hand and don't really bluffcatch much.

The bigblind is killing you, although that may just two or three big hands gone bad.

Your winrate is impressive. Keep doing what you're doing. The winrate will likely settle into something more reasonable with a bigger sample size. Don't let whatever happens get inside your head. As you said, variance may be helping you right now and that will change over time. It is easy to start to wonder about your play when that happens, but just realize that it's just normal.

That being said, maybe you are the next new sensation...

Good Luck.

Thanks for the detailed answer man. The river call efficiency thing you said is true, I wouldn't be c/c many rivers, I think that'll def need to be something I need to work on as I move up because it'll become more important.
I have a feeling that I haven't experienced even a taste of omaha variance yet, but when it comes i'll be ready, thanks for the advice!

The new sensation at plo2, XD

[ExaMeter]

what lazarus said. i guess youll have to defend your bb a bit more.
personally id 3bet ip even more but that might be style dependent.

maybe start posting more hands that has you going into the river where both betting and checking are viable and ask for the best line.

rest looks very solid.