***Official SSPLO Beginners Thread - New to PLO? Try this for quick questions/tips/chat***

[Osterror]

Originally Posted by coon74

Is it real life? Or are you tight? Personally, I'm such a spewmonkey that I can't imagine myself raked at less than 20bb/100 though my rake calcs are not precise. Also, I've heard that Stars PLO micros are massive nitrings, I believe it's the main reason why you're raked smaller there.

I'm quite tight for sure (why play very loose when you're raked a lot?) but that is not relevant here since we are comparing two sites, and all I'm saying Party rakes higher. I dont think they are looser there, maybe even vice versa often.

I always have great tables at Stars, with 70%+ vpip guys, while at Party I actually need to work some to find these guys.

[Eman6969]

What kind of std dev bb/100 do you guys have? Whats normal. Is 227 too high?

[KelvinKe]

Originally Posted by coon74

I'm very interested in site comparison too, writing this to check my sanity, please correct me wherever I err.

Are you still not boycotting Ongame that has turned its *ssence on winning regs (people complain that it drops their rewards down by 1/4-1/3)? I don't blame you, I just want to know reasons why you prefer it....

It doesn't make a huge difference, to me anyway. My RB is good enough that I make back plenty of my rake back from that. Given the skin I play on runs $25k - $50k rake race each month which I can at least make few hundred $ from too - makes it worth it. Oh and Ongame's player pool is probably the softest I've seen anywhere.

[yrmom]

shhhh you

[coon74]

Originally Posted by yrmom

shhhh you

This thread is destined to be the front of subaffiliate wars, sorry. To make a dig at Kelvin, I'd say that 5-digit rake races are uberstd for Ongame and I'd hate it if my monthly rewards were unpredictable.
Because of money transfer problems, I won't decide whom to sell my soul until next weekend at least , sorry. I'll probably sell several shares of it, though.
You'd better give bb/100 rake/stddev figures for 6max, ppl are interested.

[KelvinKe]

Originally Posted by yrmom

shhhh you

[Degenfish]

Hey SSPLO, live 1/2 NLHE reg here. I feel like I'm good enough to beat higher but I love craps too much and boring **** like paying the rent eats into my BR.

I may have the opportunity soon to play the biggest fish I've ever seen* heads up half NLHE/half PLO (planning to play NLHE my button, PLO his button) and could use some advice. For an idea of my experience level, I'm marginally familiar with some PLO concepts (value of nut blockers, looking out for overset/overfulls, playing 4 cards that work well together so you can flop wraps/NFDs that have a lot of equity, etc.) but I'm pretty sure I'd get destroyed at any table where less than 3 people believe AsKs7s4s and a board of QsXX makes them the nut flush.

However, I've only played HUPLO once (surprised at how well I held my own, expected to suck way worse than I actually did) and HUNLHE a few times. I have Moshman's HUNLHE book and both of Slowhabit's PLO books, so I plan to read those, but is there any standard list of HU-specific adjustments to make playing PLO, especially against a fish? Thanks, all.



*-regarding the fish, this guy is well known at our club/home game as the worst player any of us has ever seen. Calls down 2/3 PSBs and bigger with any piece, any draw (even a gutshot to the ass end of a straight), almost never bets for value without the near nuts and when he does it's a ridiculous overbet, super easy to read physically. This dude is 100% in it for the gamble and way, way overestimates his skills (even worse than I do); he's actually the one clamoring for PLO most of the time so I think I can get him to play me heads up half and half if the house can spare a dealer and give us half rake

[GoGetaRealJob]

I'm 100% rooting for the fish wanting to play PLO

One obv thing you need to know is that c-betting doesn't work as well in PLO, cause it's easier to have a piece of the flop. You should do a lot of delayed c-betting, he doesn't sound like a very tricky opponent and will like bet his strong hands into you OTT.

With that in mind, concentrate on thin valuebetting instead of bluffing, that's generally a good strategy vs a std fish

[Wolfram]

I'd try to get him to switch it up so that you get the button on PLO hands and he gets the button on NL hands.

[KelvinKe]

Originally Posted by Wolfram

I'd try to get him to switch it up so that you get the button on PLO hands and he gets the button on NL hands.

This

[Degenfish]

Thanks for the advice, everyone -- I've toned down my c-betting in NLHE recently anyway, so I can def keep that going in PLO, and this guy has broken the sound barrier before super snapcalling river bets with stuff like bottom pair or the worst straight on a paired 4-flush board.

I thought taking the button in NL would be good to maximize my profits in the game I'm better at, but I read up on position in PLO after seeing your suggestions and I'm definitely going to see if I can't get the button there since it seems like I'd be getting more value in PLO than I'd be losing playing OOP in NLHE.



Heh, the fish has actually expressed an interest to play no-limit omaha, but as closely as omaha equities run together pre and on a lot of flops (as far as I understand), I don't feel great about folding or playing for stacks with a lot of medium strength hands early against him trying to get it in -- his range in these kinds of situations is going to heavy in lesser combo draws in my experience (he's played gutshot + weak FD like it was the nuts before) when in PL I could just call down/bet for value and let the draws brick out

I also don't feel like NLO would give me enough of an opportunity to utilize my skill edge over multiple streets when he's not as reluctant to fold his air to cheap bets early, preventing me from building pots with my strong hands, but I could be wrong about that?

[jurskie]

I just started playing plo as my main game and got some beginners questions! I play plo25 and sometimes 50 online and plo 2-2 live.


1)Spot that happens fairly often: I 3bet regs BTN/CO 3bb/3.5bb without much info about guy from blinds with AAxxds, flop comes K42 rainbow or something similar like Q72r/J52r and I flop one or two bdfds and maybe some bdsd. Lets say he potted it pre so pot is 25bb. We got 88bb behind. My standard line here has been bet 16bb and call raise. If he calls I get to shove all turns that improve me and also the ones that are unlikely to hit his flatting range. Is this fine as standard line here? Is the cbet sizing fine? just feel like gotta make it biggish to avoid ankvard turn pot size. Bet/folding seems like pretty exploitative option as standard play but we can do it vs nits right?

2) Small blind preflop play. I feel a bit lost what to here generally expext hu vs bb which is kinda simple. Someone with 10%/20%/30%/40%/50% range opens and it is folded to us what we can play in each scenario and do we 3bet or not. How much does who the BB is influence your play. Just generally hate idea of playing 3-way pots OOP. Vs wide steal range I feel like 3betting a lot is best as they fold so much pre.
-10% opening range I 3bet premium aces and like some premium rundowns? what about calling range I feel like I should fold for example super bad aces like AA72r
-20% I can add somemore 3bets and call more but how wide
-30% I can add evenmore 3bets and call more but how wide
-40% I 3bet most of hands I play but what should I just flat? And how wide 3betting is fine?
-50% I 3bet most of hands I play but what should I just flat? And how wide 3betting is fine?
And finally what about when pot gets multiway pre, how wide and what sort of hands are strong enough to play versus PFR and 1-3 callers OOP.

3) 3betting from BTN when there are bad players at blinds.
Example scenario: OK but like slightly exploitative regular(folds to lot of 3bets and just generally plays bad OOP in 3bet pots without incentive) opens form CO with 30% range we got something decent or even great and are sure it is EV+ play to 3bet him but do we 3bet if there are 1 or 2 bad players behind, they might cold call the 3bet but it seems unlikely if they aren't horrible. I feel like just calling the raise is best with most hands right? Which part of our range we want to 3bet? I have lately called like all the good/decent hands in this situation and 3bet only semibluff hands like bad doublesuited hands and stuff like double pairs higher pair lower than TT or stuff like 6654 or 6543.



I also play pot limit omaha in live setting at casino and results have been very good there. But I would wanna hear how I should adapt my preflop game there given the nature of the game is very different than in online. Game is 2-2 DC 6-8handed mostly 5-card omaha but also 4-card omaha & courchevel and some stud games are played occasionally. Sometimes(=seldom) effective stacks are 100BB but mostly game plays much higher like 250-500BB but also 1000BB+ sometimes. There is sometimes mandatory live(4) but mostly it is like every third hand there is live posted. Also in addition to live one dead(6-pot) is pretty frequently posted. The standard table 1-3 very bad players, 1-3 tight players, 2-3 loose regulars, 1-2 maniacs. I play pretty tight agressive game.

1)First question what game should I choose? Have been going with five card omaha because people play it too loose postflop and also loose pre and I can also play more of my buttons if I choose it. Downside is that equinties run much closer than 4-card version. Sometimes I also pick courchevel but just feel like it is bad because I gotta fold so many buttons when the facecard is high and it doesnt hit me eventhough the plus side is that people play it also way too loose pre and post and when u get it in u usually dominate/freeroll more than in 5-card omaha.

2) Preflop game. I should just limp most hands I play from UTG/UTG+1 and even UTG+2 if 8-handed? Expect like premium stuff AAxxxds and high rundowns & stuff like KKQQx. Game plays pretty agressive and someone is gonna do some raising anyways. Just seems to create pretty high variance spots and it is pretty seldom u get position from opening as people just hate folding BTNs in DC evenmore than in other tables and also call very loose from MP&CO&blinds/live so u often have decent position postflop and get to close action when u limp. There is also sometimes lot of 3betting pre and limp-reraising. What about BTN play how loose can u play 5-card omaha? I like playing like every A-high suited hand, all big pairs if I get in cheap and lot of different rundowns with many caps if I got two suits. I feel very confident that my postflop game is much better than most of other people. Even though some regs are very good for 2-2 live game and can put you in pretty tough spots.

Thanks in advance!! Sorry long post!!

[thepizzlefosho]

can anyone point me to threads or posts helping with redline (aka non-SD winnings)? I'm a losing player getting crushed in non-sd pots and I'm having trouble figuring out my leaks since I'm relatively new to the game (only about 90k hands experience between 25plo and 200plo).

any thoughts, posts, threads, or advice would be greatly appreciated.

[bananapeel]

What is the acceptable format of posting Multi-hand analysis threads?

Can I just convert the hands and put them on the thread, or it is only acceptable to url link if I want feedback on say 3-5 hands?

Thanks

[GoGetaRealJob]

Either way is fine, but usually you should just post them as individual threads

Sorry I haven't been replying for a couple days, will try and get back on track later today