Limping strategies were more common a couple of years ago.

In early position in a 6max game you wouldn't limp from UTG since your range is so strong, that you want to get value with it. For example, you're going to make much more money with AKTJs when raising it for POT compared to a limp since you make the pot bigger before the flop.

I think people used to limp more to encourage multiway action from bad hands in the earlier days and it's still possible in the live games as people want to see a flop for 1BB.

Not even close.

Thanks for your reply DuFisch. Rei, limping in NLHE is a no-no if you're the first in the pot (for me anyway).

This is just plainly wrong, both theoretically and empirically. Are you aware at all of how NLHE has been played post, like, 2011 (uNL and SSNL notwithstanding)? There is enough open limping among winning regulars to warrant more than a footnote. (It's even more common in PLO, of course.)

I'm not sure where you learned otherwise, but the source is a steaming load of bull****.

Yeah, if you're a beginner you might not want to bother constructing limp-first-in ranges. In highly raked games with significant preflop fold equity, there isn't much point in open limping. But those are exceptions, not the rule, and the idea that open limping is "obviously a big no-no in NLHE" is categorically nonsensical.

lol you're trying too hard to convince me. It doesn't work for me and I never do it unless there are other limpers before me.

If limping works for you then that's great. Keep doing what works for you and I'll keep doing what works for me

LOL I'm not trying to convince you of anything -- I'm just mocking your finger-in-the-ears, la-la-la-I-can't-hear-you ignorance. Persist in that ignorance if you'd like to.

Yeah I'm sure what works for *you*, Poker After Dark–educated you, is more relevant to the issue than the way NLHE has been played for a while.

Yea u gotta feel your strategies out, not think them duh

It's not ignorance, it's just the way I play. I didn't say it was a wrong thing to do, I specified that it was my opinion and applies to my game - not yours.

Last time I open-limped a pot was probably 5-6 years ago (excluding misclicks).

It doesn't work for me so I don't do it.

You're obviously way too arrogant to understand that.

Btw, Poker After Dark didn't teach me not to limp as limping seems a common strategy on that show (the first seasons anyway).

Yeah you did:


Very weakly at first -- you repeated what you said and tacked on a parenthetical "for me anyway", which was not very convincing.

That doesn't matter anyway, because the sole purpose of this shift to "it's just my opinion" was to slither out from underneath the criticism. After all, you said "I'm only asking because it's obviously a big no-no in NLHE". You believed it was a "big no-no" in general, not just for only you -- it would have been illogical to phrase the sentence that way otherwise. And then you made a point of making it clear that I didn't convince you.

If it's what you believe, own it, and argue on equal terms. Drop this "it's just my opinion that applies to me alone so you can't argue with it" routine. It's for cowards.

lol

I was just being lazy for the most part... and don't really wanna turn this into another well. Feel free to bump the original one

Sorry it wasn't very convincing, I should have written an essay and use a lie detector. Just because you try hard to convince others doesn't mean everyone else is the same.



Sorry that my arguments were not strong enough. Your 'not even close' argument blew me away and left me speechless. Arrogant much?

I guess you're one of them 'my way or the highway' type of people.

Okay, you win. Open limping obviously is a big shove_blind no-no in NLHE.

Could you point me to a thread or other source that suggests that open-limping would be a good strategy in todays online NL cash games? I'm really curious as I don't remember any regs open-limping in the small-stakes or mid-stakes games I've played in the recent years. I'm curious in why they would do that, and why it would be more profitable than just opening with a raise.

I remember Harrington on Holdem had some points for open limping in tournies, but I don't remember anyone advocating open limping in NL cash games before.

I can't point you to anything that's free.

If you have a RIO elite sub, search for "open limping" or start with the NL Zoom videos -- cliffs: it's not mandatory, but it's widely acknowledged as a viable, if complex to execute, part of NLHE strategy. (All-LFI SB strategies in 6-max are a relative exception to the "complex to execute" part and, because there is no mixing, the limps are better conceptualized as "baby raises" -- i.e., "opens" to 1 bb.)

I assumed the original question was about full-stacked play, but limp/raise mixes from the SB are the norm in HU CAP.

In the absence of significant fold equity preflop (as is often the case SB vs. BB and BTN vs. blinds against competent opposition), it won't be hard for limping a lot of hands to be strictly preferred to or at least cooptimal with raising them.

Limping in the SB is still common, or as you said HU cap (though I never play the latter).

The question is how do you open-limp in a full ring or 6-max game from any position other than SB?

Ask someone willing to waste their time answering your questions. I learned my lesson yesterday.

You wish.

Looks like someone is a tad bitter...

Okay, kids, no more about limping in no limit, m'kay?

How are the low stakes live PLO games in AC? Here for the next few days and considering trying live PLO for the first time.

What vids to start with when learning PLO? Mainly looking for vids about the high frequency spots like opening ranges, calling ranges, 3betting ranges, calling 3bets, cbetting, and so on. Obviously galfond is good but maybe that is not the most effective thing to do? I am completely new to this plo game and I am used to NLHE but I want to try something new since the game is getting boring.

You should prob post at Brick and Mortar, better chance of getting a first-hand account

I think you'll have better luck getting answers if you post at the forums of the video sites. As a CardRunners pro I can recommend our new "complete beginners' guide to PLO" by Elrazor

Thanks for the clarification Rei, sounds interesting. But as mom said, we shouldn't discuss NLH here and it sounds like your getting annoyed...

I've been enjoying Vanessa Selbst videos from DC, they are really old so its going to tilt you for sure when they keep saying "at these stakes they just play their own cards" etc when playing PLO100, but the vids are fairly interesting as she is coaching a NL high stakes player and correcting his numerous mistakes.

The Rio $10 subscription is also quite good, you could start with the Galfond PLO vids - I think he explains the logic quite clearly and he keeps saying that those vids are geared towards newer players so he'll focus more on pre-flop. They are so worth the $10 fee.

Unfortunately I haven't been a CR member for a while, so can't say anything about their PLO vids.

Haven't really looked if there are vids to those things you mentioned, but you could read PLO from Scratch by Bugs. It explains exactly those kinds of things, its a few years old but I thought it was well written (or the about 1/3rd of it that I've read so far). Its available for free here, you can google for the other parts http://en.donkr.com/Articles/plo-fro...h---part-1-186

Villain is 47/26/2.1 with a fold-to-3bet of 19% and c-bet of 38%.

Looking back I should have 3bet pre, as played though I got really confused when villain C/R - called flop. I assume he is on a draw and I expected him to jam the flop. Since he called I expected he'd jam the turn since if he had a wrap he should have the nuts.

Didn't really know if I should bet the turn to get value from the possible FD, but given the board I think I might be often behind here. If he did want to go for a C/R again I guess I only have 21% equity against the nut-straight.

OTR I don't really think I can raise for value, nor can I bluff a smaller straight as I checked the turn.

Does it seem OK, except for missing the 3bet PF? I really need to start punishing those more pf...

>40%; you have a FD. And a lot of straights should just open limp open pot the turn, especially if you're checking back pretty much all of your sets.

The speed of my 3bet will make the felt catch fire, hehe

I still bet the turn with the hearts out there, you can go for half-pot to keep hands like this still in. He might even spazz at all pairing rivers. Ur equity is pretty decent vs a str8 as rei pointed out

river raise would be a tad ambitious, but you could potentially squeeze 2-3 more bucks off worse hands. The danger is opening urself to a big 3bet, but prob not a problem vs a fish