Hey guys, I guess that I'll start by saying that I am a fairly experienced hold'em player (~2000 hours mostly at 2/5 $1000 max, some at 5/10), but am fairly new to PLO (less than 100 hours live @ 2/5 and 2/5/10). The card room that I play at has recently began to run PLO games on a semi-regular basis due to the players requesting it.

I am now faced with a dilemma. I can beat the hold'em game very consistently. There are maybe a handful of players from the player pool that I would even consider competition to me, and lucky I know who all of them are and have created a dynamic such that we don't clash. Now these same bad hold'em players now want to play PLO everyday. I see that they are absolutely terrible at the game and frequently make big mistakes. But somehow I am unable to translate this into profit. I honestly think that I have run very poorly in the time that I have played PLO. I can never seem to win a whole pot. The story of my PLO life is as follows: Get stacks in with the nuts, sometimes with a redraw, run it twice, and chop. It is driving me ****ing insane. Just yesterday I got it in three ways with the overfull versus the underfull only to get 1 outed for a chop and a $3000 pot. I have read two of Jeff Hwang's books and understand the vast differences between PLO and HE, but of course experience is a crucial part of the learning curve.

The game I play in is pretty crazy. I am going to give an example of a situation that occurred last night when I was playing.

2/5 PLO game, 10 handed. My stack is ~$1000. This pot is triple straddled to $40. The $40 is to my immediate right, so I am first to act.

I am in MP and look down at: AKJ10

My plan at this point is to just call and either see a flop for $40, or depending on the action and whether or not someone raises (likely imo), re-pot it and try to get stacks in before the flop. Is this a seemingly profitable plan? I know that there are many hands that will stack off that I have dominated. I only really don't want to be up against kings or aces right?

So anyway, a few people call and the CO pots it to like $210, two players call, and sticking to the plan, I re-pot all-in. The pot ends up going 4-ways all-in before the flop. Now, I can't say that I got the exact suits right, but if someone was suited, I know I got that right. I am up against:

QJ87
K943
AJ109

Now, it seems to me that I have done well and that I have all of these hands dominated. But I run the numbers only to find out that I am like 15% to win the pot. I assume that this is the case because all of my outs are being held by my opponents. The question is should I continue with this strategy? Or should I wait for only aces or some middle to low double suited rundown to get it in before the flop? I understand that getting it in pre-flop is a tremendously high variance strategy and that unless I dominate my opponent, I can't really expect to better than a 2:1 favorite. I didn't run the numbers, but I assume that I have all these hands in bad shape if I am up against them individually.


Another situation that occurred that I am not entirely sure about. Sitting to my right is a player that is well known in my area. He has a ton of money and is not afraid to put it on the line. He is not a good card player. He is here to gamble. So far this session he has potted it before the flop with hands such as: J443.

I am on the button and straddle to $10, he, to my immediate right, re-straddles to $20...Zzz... effective stacks of about $1000.

I look down at: AK103

Again, the plan is to either see a flop for $20, or possibly get it in asap against the maniac to my right if he pots it. I flat the $20, 3 others call the $20 to the maniac. He pots it, I re-pot, and now the SB re-pots all-in for ~$1000. The maniac calls off the rest of his $1000. I am now sitting getting a bit better than 3:1 on a call knowing full well that I am likely against aces. I have to call here right?

I guess my question is should I stop trying to get all-in before the flop when I think I have my opponent dominated? Only wait for aces? What's the plan? Thanks for your input guys.

Just realized this may not be the appropriate forum, high stakes maybe? For all intents and purposes most of the players are bad 2/5 regs.

Raise pre first time around and be happy about it. Either 4b or call if CO 3bets depending on your love for variance or hate for postflop edge

LRR is OK but sucks against a 4b like you saw You have to fold 3way now I think but I don't know the amount you invested and such. You can PPT it yourself

Raise/calling is once again better, followed by limp/calling

Yup, seeing flops is higher EV

One problem that you are probably having is that in Holdem you can have quite a preflop edge. In PLO you don't. I know you have probably heard that all the time, but your play doesn't reflect it. The hands you are shoving pre aren't even that good. Even with AAxx 3 or 4 way you are almost breaking even with a preflop all-in.

Anyway, you are better off outplaying your opponents postflop. You flop strong hands often enough that you can valuetown these bad players and fold when you miss the flop altogether. Bluffing in Omaha isn't raising or betting with air, you can just check/fold your air every time when its 3-4 way. Bluff your 8-12 nutout hands against maniacs, float your 8-12 nutout hands against tighter players, bet your 13+ nutout hands for value. Also, pot it when you got it, get max value against those worse players. If you have the nut straight/flush and the next card makes a flush/paired board, don't be afraid to check/fold if you know you don't have enough equity to continue with the hand. Only against the maniacs are you willing to continue once your hand becomes weak like that.