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Live PLO 2/2 Bankroll ? Live PLO 2/2 Bankroll ?

08-10-2017 , 06:48 PM
Hi there.

In my Place, there are several PLO Games running - from 2/2 and 5/5 to occasionally 5/10 or 10/20.
Atm, I can only afford to play 2/2 with a 10k€ Roll/Networth and about 1k coming in each month.The Game plays 100min Buyin and no-max.
I was asking myself to what Buyins, Stop-Loss and Cashout I should stick to?
The Games get deep normally like three Players with 800-1500 and the Rest from 200-800 Stacks and sometimes they get very deep when three or four players are sitting with 2-3k.
So Longterm I for sure want to buy in deep and almost always cover the Bigstack, put on max. pressure eg., the way to go in live poker and maximize win rate.But atm, not affordable
So what buyin should I use?
Buyin in short for 100€ is good if there are not too many straddlers and you can see flops and get it in with dominating hand, realize your equity or just wait for the occasional AAxx/KKxx, limp raise and profit from dead money.
After Double or Triple, play deep from there on and "freeroll" for any bigger Pots that might come.
But it also increases variance to play deep.If I buyin for 100 and have Win of >400€ it΄s a good Win already.This leads to the Question, when to make seat open and when to stay?
For this Strategy I would have 100 Buyins and that should do it.
But the Games are soft and I can imagine buying in for 200 and have a 50buyin Roll so I can play postflop, see more flops and apply pressure in some more Spots, but this Roll might be too short....
If I use 100€ Buyin, when should I make Seatopen and when should I move up to 200€ Buyin?
Same Question for 200€ Buyin and when to move to 500€ Buyin?
Also, if Roll grows big enough, would you either switch to 5/5 or continue to play 2/2 with like a 1k Buyin and just exploit the Regs that play deep and make use of the money scared of the rest of the Players?
Also I want to mention the Rake is relatively high but beatable, but I think one should not play too many Hands (and especially small to medium size pots)
so this also may affect buyin and play strategy.
It's like 1€ for Jackpot every Hand, but you also win a little bit back with high hands and promos, and then:

16/1
30/3
70/4
100/5
150/6
200/7
300/10
600/15
900/20
1200/25max
Live PLO 2/2 Bankroll ? Quote
08-10-2017 , 08:27 PM
i think buying in for 50bb with 10k roll is pretty nitty if I understand your post right? (buy in for 100 at 2/2)
Buying in short will only increase your variance

I would prob be buying in full with like 6k roll

move up to 2/5 at probably 15-20k roll
Live PLO 2/2 Bankroll ? Quote
08-10-2017 , 09:21 PM
For the beginning, I want to keep Variance/Swings as low as possible.
And for Variance, I've also read playing deep increases it cause you play bigger Pots and can make bigger mistakes, your BR can take bigger Hits.
While playing short you can't make any big mistakes cause your ai on the Turn latest and realize all your equity while bad players just will pay you off?
If I would start with 6k as a Roll as you say, I think I would definitely have to play 50bb cause with 100bb this would give me a 30buyin Roll which is just to little as my experience tells me.
But, whether 50bb or 100b, the part I am very unsure is when to quit/when to continue play when being up? Obv I stay if a whale has a huge stack and is also playing very passive and is not likely to put me at any risk/difficult decision and the chances are good he will pay me off in the right spot.
But when there is no such whale, any guidelines when to quit/secure winnings?
Live PLO 2/2 Bankroll ? Quote
08-10-2017 , 10:00 PM
You have $10k net worth and want to use it all to play poker??!?

Nobody can tell you when to stand up or keep playing. It's always going to be dependent on your mental state, your roll and who's playing. Asking for a guideline on when to play is pointless.

You said you want to buy in to cover biggest stack. That'd require you to buy in for like 10-20% of your roll. I think you are grossly overestimating your edge and underestimating variance.
Live PLO 2/2 Bankroll ? Quote
08-10-2017 , 10:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ankimo
You have $10k net worth and want to use it all to play poker??!?

You said you want to buy in to cover biggest stack. That'd require you to buy in for like 10-20% of your roll. I think you are grossly overestimating your edge and underestimating variance.
No you misunderstood, that's where I want to go long term but for the beginning I want to keep buyin and variance low due to small BR and I also need to get more confident in my Game and do some content.
I am very aware of variance on not being a crusher yet, so I want to buy in for the min., 100€ and reduce swings/variance and risk of ruin as much as possible and get more aggressive with brm as br grows.
I researched a little so far I think a guideline is that you should get up when you have a certain amount of your Br on the table.
Let's say I use a 8k Bankroll, 80buyins.At no Point, I want to risk more than 5% of my Roll in one Hand so for the first few Sessions I want to get up once I reached >400€ Profit?

The Games are very soft and I am confident that a 8k Roll can be enough if you truly stick to BR Guidelines which have been my weakness so far.
I'm just looking for the right approach to slowly build my roll without big swings and what are good points, when to change buyin amount, amount of profit before quit eg.
Live PLO 2/2 Bankroll ? Quote
08-11-2017 , 06:39 AM
It depends on your situation but the swings in full ring live plo are unbelievably big. If there's regular straddles you need ~30k roll to grind it, even if there's not I'd recommend 20k.

Sounds nitty to have that amount of buyins but the game plays so much bigger than a 1/2 game online. It plays a lot deeper, most initial preflop raises are ~ $15 after limpers and the variance is generally much higher due to it being full ring.
Live PLO 2/2 Bankroll ? Quote
08-11-2017 , 08:30 AM
Just buy in for $200 & play some 100bb eff. Poker.

10k is plenty of you want to regularly play a 2/2 game, just make sure you still have enough money to pay expenses without having to dig into your roll.
Live PLO 2/2 Bankroll ? Quote
08-12-2017 , 06:01 AM
A lot of different opinions on that topic
What about when the games play deep?
Should I quit/not enter when there are straddles and restraddles going on?
And sorry to stress it again, any guidelines when to quit?
Sure, in the end its on me to judge if its worth to stay or not, but any guideline beside that?
One Doubleup sure is too early too leave, you wont make any volume (and friends^^) if you would do that...
Live PLO 2/2 Bankroll ? Quote
08-14-2017 , 01:23 PM
There are certainly ways to reduce the variance.
The most important part is obv getting better with the fundamentals and theory (aka improve your game every day is Nr.1 task to reduce variance.)

Learn about your environment aka the players at the tables. Who is aggressive who is passiv. Who plays crap **** preflop and who folds a lot postflop. This information will give you immidiate profit.

Shortstacking or Midstacking is obv different from 100bb+ strategy. If u wanna play it learn it first. I think its a good tool for beginners bc it teaches a lot about equity.

Dont spend too much on stuff like drinks, food, blackjack etcetc. Your BR is a tool so handle with care.
Live PLO 2/2 Bankroll ? Quote
08-18-2017 , 10:25 AM
Judging by your location I assume the casino is concord? If that is the case then the best time to play lower variance is when the high hand bonus is active. Other than that you should just keep grinding the games as much as possible. You dont even need that big of a bankroll because the game is really passive anyways. With high volume your bankroll will be sufficient to take shots in the bigger games when the asian are gambling.
Live PLO 2/2 Bankroll ? Quote
08-18-2017 , 01:25 PM
Yes, its the Concord...

Lets put my Question this Way:
I will almost always play deep (100-300bb) cause no matter if I double or triple up, I wont immieadeatly leave.
But would it make sense to buyin/rebuy for 100 to reduce Bankroll Requierments/Variance/Swings but play deep afterwards?
And regarding doubling/trippling up, I try one more time, tips/guidelines when to quit? (%of BR?)if there are Stacks that cover me (and the game isnt especially juicy/passive)?
Live PLO 2/2 Bankroll ? Quote
08-20-2017 , 07:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IvegotnoClue
Yes, its the Concord...

Lets put my Question this Way:
I will almost always play deep (100-300bb) cause no matter if I double or triple up, I wont immieadeatly leave.
But would it make sense to buyin/rebuy for 100 to reduce Bankroll Requierments/Variance/Swings but play deep afterwards?
And regarding doubling/trippling up, I try one more time, tips/guidelines when to quit? (%of BR?)if there are Stacks that cover me (and the game isnt especially juicy/passive)?

As far as when to quit, it's up to you. That said, I always go into a game with a stop loss and a win cap. Normally, a 2-3 BI loss is when I call it quits. Usually, I stick to a 2 BI stop loss. However, there is the occasional game about once a month where there is an action player jamming any hands pre with a short stack. In that game I will go to a 3 BI stop loss because this player is abnormally willing to get it in behind. If he sucks out, he sucks out.

The win cap is based on a few variables, though. If you're at the game I just mentioned, I may stay a bit longer since there is the player throwing money at me. Other things like you know you are the best player at your table or you have an unusual amount of fish surrounding you would be other reasons to stay.

I use the stop loss and win cap as guidelines. I don't follow them 100%, but I always know what my limits are in case I get in too deep. Let yourself have room to play your best game without being scared money. Good luck out there
Live PLO 2/2 Bankroll ? Quote
08-21-2017 , 11:28 AM
You want twice as many buyins for PLO as you do for NLHE.

So for NLHE you might want:
100bbs: 40 buyins
200bbs: 30 buyins
500bbs: 20 buyins

For PLO:
100bbs: 80 buyins ($16k roll, $200 buyins)
200bbs: 60 buyins ($24k roll, $400 buyins)
500bbs: 40 buyins ($40k roll, $1k buyins)

Don't buy in for less than 100bbs if you want to have a decent edge.
Live PLO 2/2 Bankroll ? Quote
08-21-2017 , 10:50 PM
But guys, he wants to know exactly when to stop playing.
Live PLO 2/2 Bankroll ? Quote
08-22-2017 , 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ankimo
But guys, he wants to know exactly when to stop playing.
No, he wants to know if there are any guidelines and recommendations (maybe from ecperienced winning live players) on this issue and already said that he knows that finally its on him to decide if the table is good enough to stay and risk to lose a big stack in one hand.
Live PLO 2/2 Bankroll ? Quote

      
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