life as a plo pro - tell your story - Page 4 - Small Stakes Pot Limit Omaha

pkrtxs · 02-24-2012, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hideYAkids

PLO is a sexy b@$#h! you can't love her, she's too nasty. But when she's treating you "right", oooo baby nothin else matters you're just the man.

How many of you did love poker once but now don't/maybe even hate it but just keep doing it for the money?
You can't hate it and play. You'll just end up losing. All mental bro.

winner!

Your Mom · 02-24-2012, 03:16 AM

play plo and bet sports for a living. started as a pro three yrs ago when i got laid off after 4.5 years at a large discount brokerage. I don't really like poker all that much, but it pays the bills. I'm lazy as **** at putting in hours though I did do well enough for the Mrs. to quit her job and take care of our baby 18 months ago. Now we have #2 on the way which means big medical bills for me to pay. Add in a terrible run of sports betting as well as ****ty poker results so far this year plus property taxes due in March and a hefty fed tax bill in April combined with Carbon being ****ty at cashouts and it's a pretty ****ty spot I'm in. At least it got me motivated to play......

keanosdog · 02-24-2012, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hideYAkids

PLO is a sexy b@$#h! you can't love her, she's too nasty. But when she's treating you "right", oooo baby nothin else matters you're just the man.

How many of you did love poker once but now don't/maybe even hate it but just keep doing it for the money?
You can't hate it and play. You'll just end up losing. All mental bro.

I'd agree. Yet it seems some ITT are doing just that and looking for a way out.

Then you see somone like Doyle Brnson still playing and absolutely in love with the game as i'd imagine he was as a young man.

Maybe that passion is what seperates those that crush (ivey dwan etc) from those that make a good living from the game?

roggo · 02-24-2012, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keanosdog

Maybe that passion is what seperates those that crush (ivey dwan etc) from those that make a good living from the game?

Not just in poker, but in all of life this is the main reason why some are successful and some are not. The not so successful usually just say that some are more talented or born under a lucky star or what not.

keanosdog · 02-24-2012, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KelvinKe

I

The problem is we forget one thing: Phil Ivey and the likes spent hours upon hours playing and studying the game. It has taken him at least 10 years to get to where he is now. Perseverance. Food for thought.....

This.

Saw a video where Ivey explains he took a job for the money, went to a casino every friday evening and just played 18 hour session, slept a little and more 18 hour sessions.

back to work on the monday until he had enough to quit his job.

CHRONICFEVER · 02-24-2012, 04:17 AM

Napsus coming through again. Pretty cool thread and good insight
I don't play poker anymore so no story really. But I guess I can post my old routine when I was semi-pro when I get a chance

Ash05 · 02-24-2012, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by napsus

great thread with many interesting views.
fqwiw, im a smallstakes grinder (PLO 50 - 200) and would like to share my story as well

do you separate poker bankroll and liferoll? how strict is your brm?
most of the time

in an ideal situation i would always have my x amounts of buy-ins to play in my regular games. unfortunatly PLO is not very fond of this idea and forces me to dip into my savings every once in a while. getting used to it though

the majority of my savings/liferoll is anyways from poker, so i guess in the end its no big deal.

do you see yourself as a poker pro still 5 years from now?
i've been thinking bout this a lot lately, and although i curse poker and plo most of the time, i would love to still be a pro if the circumstances allow it somehow. im anyways sure that i will be working somehow in the poker/gaming industry and i would prefer doing so as a professional player

it would be important for me though that i have established some type of security and more balance for myself, else the whole struggle is probably not worth it ...

what is your daily schedule like? grind all night, sleep all day?
unfortunatly yeah. it was never planned like this. but till now im still not able to have some kind of "healthy" routine. but its getting better though

i usually make two sessions in in the afternoon and one from midnight till morning each like 3-4 hours. the midnight session is usually longer. i somehow never was a big fan of going to sleep

sometimes i will squeeze in a session inbetween as well, these are usually shorter and just help me to kill some time ... and hopefully make some money ofc

if im not playing im doing some sports like basketball or boxing (its kinda nice if you have a heavy bag in your room

, just lazy on the couch and play playstation or spend time wiht my gf.
most happens kinda spontenaous but i think a clear and written down routine/schedule would benefit me and others a lot.

how much time do you spend studying the game vs grinding?
from strategy point of view probably way too less. i watch videos every once in a while, like 1/week. i do coach though and make vids myself which helps me reviewing all the important concepts again and again. i put a lot of effort into preperation time and somehow learn the most here.

from mindset view, im doing more and more in the last years, but still not enough .i already have my gameplan, which needs some minor tweaking every now, but i believe that mindset is one of the biggest areas where i can still improve. its funny how some books read very differently, now that im already playing kinda serious since some years. "Ace on the River" is the best example. its one of the first books that i bought in 2006, i finished it fast and thought it was ok, but didnt offered me anything in advice (i was just looking for strategy obv.). Read it again last year, and i have to admit that its probably the best book on poker i have read so far. I understand now.

i would like to be able to check up winning regulars in my games and start exploiting them somehow via hem, i havent figured out yet how to do that "away from the table" anaylizing yet, ... or im just too lazy.

do you regret dropping out of university for poker (in case you did drop out)?
didnt went to uni. I finished something like a college/academy for advertising. after it i was working 3 years as a copywriter in a bigger ad agency. got kicked out and went to work for a gaming/betting/poker company. some minro regrets, but its fine.

do you think working a normal job would be more rewarding overall?
not sure what the definition of a normal job is, but right now i wouldnt find any "regular" job rewarding. poker gives you a lot of opportunites imo if you already have done something before or have at least a picture what you want/expect from life. its like a middle step into being an entrepreneur which is worthwhile imo.

still, poker is not for everybody, so i guess a job suits most people better.

if you are going for sne, how do you organize yourself so that you make sure you won't fail?
never tried to, but probably tell my close friends/family that i will be even less available from now on.

did you have a "aha!" moment when you realized you wanna play poker for living?
my life just changed and i finally found the strength/energy to pursue what i think is the right thing for me. im still not at the point where i imagined i would be. kinda far from tbh, but i just believe that this is it

i had an "aha" moment afterwards: i realized how much stability a secure income/social system gave me, even though moneywise it shouldnt stand in any relation. kinda weird.

what is the minimum requirement to start as a pro? certain hourly rate over xxxk hands? how did you define it for yourself?
this probably takes in many individual factors, but i will try to state some general:

i would say experience is very important, like having played a good samplesize of hands resulating in an hourly of 50-100$ (depending where you are from)

some type of back up plan, like having education, previous jobs or an understanding and supportive family if **** happens.

if you are younger, than inform yourself about tax, insurance, ... . set some money aside mabye for your flat, furniture, car, ... and think about saving as well.

genereal stability and balance is always good.

for myself, hmm. i somehow lived life as i was expected to already and just said: **** it, lets do this.

this is tl,dr already but one more thing i realized after going pro are the working hours. most who play semiprofessional and try to be sucessful in both areas know howits like to work 40-60h/week and add another 20h/week playing poker. i did it myself for years and thought that going pro and playing 40hours per week is a walk in the park.
well, its not. at least not for me. when i spent 10-12 hours a day in the agency, i probaly was working 3 hours max. effectivly. hem does track your hours very precise though, so took me some time to get used to real working hours. respect to all those who grind it out for SNE. thats just sick.

xaxa · 02-24-2012, 12:00 PM

wow thread is a lot better than i expected.

nothing really that i can add except the advise not to keep ****loads of $ online

ndahlhoff10 · 02-24-2012, 12:49 PM

Interesting thread, I'm still new to plo, spent the last few years grinding sngs for a living, switched about two months ago. Only playing 50-100 right now.

do you separate poker bankroll and liferoll? how strict is your brm?
Sort of, but not really. I have money in the bank and money online. I'm pretty conservative with my BR because it's really not fun going on huge downswings, and it's not like I'm all that good at this game anyway.

do you see yourself as a poker pro still 5 years from now?
Hopefully not full-time. Although I'd be alright with it still being my only source of income if I were putting a lot of time into something else I'm passionate about as well.

what is your daily schedule like? grind all night, sleep all day?
I just moved out of the US last month, in Panama now and planning on traveling for an extended period. Heading towards Costa Rica at the end of the month. Daily schedule right now consists of Spanish classes 4 hours/day, 4 days/week. Finding things to interest me, and getting in the hours whenever I feel motivated. I've probably been averaging 20-25 hours/week playing. I would like to get more in, but I've been really busy lately. I usually wake up at 10 or 11am. The daily schedule fluctuates a lot, lately I've been using the weekends to catch up on my grinding, but squeeze hours in whenever I can.

how much time do you spend studying the game vs grinding?
Probably something like 2.5-3.5:1 ratio of grinding:studying. Studying has increased a lot since switching to plo, but still not studying as much as I'd really like.

do you regret dropping out of university for poker (in case you did drop out)?
I took a year and a half break after my junior year. Realized I disliked my major a bit too late to do much about it. I don't regret it. I wish I would have been smarter when I was younger and skipped college altogether, or at least waited awhile to attend. Once I had that much money invested, not finishing felt a little stupid. So, I went ahead and got it finished.

do you think working a normal job would be more rewarding overall?
It depends. If it's a job you love and are passionate about than definitely. However, the thought of getting a corporate job doing something I'm not too interested in sounds dreadful to me. I'm really happy with where my life and career are nowadays and don't think any of my other options would come close to being as rewarding as poker is for me now.

There have definitely been times in my life were poker was far from rewarding though and almost anything would have been better. With poker, more so than regular jobs, it's important to create a life around it that you really enjoy.

if you are going for sne, how do you organize yourself so that you make sure you won't fail?
Not for me.

did you have a "aha!" moment when you realized you wanna play poker for living?
It happened sort of gradually for me. Started playing towards the end of High School, and not too long later I was making more playing poker than I could delivering pizzas. That sort of continued through college were other jobs couldn't pay as well as poker, nor where they as interesting. I won a mtt for something like $20k, my study habits disappeared, and wanted to see what I could actually do with poker if I focused on it, so I dropped out of school for a while. Not too long into that, I realized I didn't want to play poker for a living long term. But for now it's good. Other jobs have never been that great of an option for me.

what is the minimum requirement to start as a pro? certain hourly rate over xxxk hands? how did you define it for yourself?

I'm sure it's different for everybody. Enough money in the bank to handle some life/poker swings. Need to make enough money to live and save. I think the non financial aspects of being a pro are more important. Can you stay motivated to put sessions in? What about studying? How do you handle the swings emotionally? Basically just need to be honest with yourself, realize there are a lot of people trying to do the same thing as you, realize in almost every case you're going to overestimate your own skills and underestimate your opponents. Have to remove the ego from the game. Need to be a student of the game and realize you know nothing and have the motivation to do something about it.

nachunja · 02-24-2012, 01:06 PM

i went from 1000 deposit grinding 50NL
then transitioned to plo now playing any stake (1/2 ~ 25/50) i 'feel' like

Quote:

Originally Posted by napsus

do you separate poker bankroll and liferoll? how strict is your brm?

yes. it's hard to do it at first, but once you keep beating the games, it is essential to keep them separate to keep you sane.

do you see yourself as a poker pro still 5 years from now?
No. Seeing how games change year after year, month after month, future isnt bright.

what is your daily schedule like? grind all night, sleep all day?
play whenever time allows. but i think its very important to only play when you feel like it. forcing yourself to play can only do harm.

how much time do you spend studying the game vs grinding?
used to do it alot, but i think there's a point where learning curve flattens A LOT. Edit: this could be my own belief, a thought that restricts my own growth. zomg

do you regret dropping out of university for poker (in case you did drop out)?
Didnt drop out but taking longer to graduate;. Luckily reason it took longer to graduate will get rid of my 50k student loan.

do you think working a normal job would be more rewarding overall?
yes, by a mile

if you are going for sne, how do you organize yourself so that you make sure you won't fail?
no, i even have trouble maintaing the monthly 6500vpps

did you have a "aha!" moment when you realized you wanna play poker for living?
aha moment came afterwards, when i realized you have to be desperate to really be good. By desperate, i mean for the drive you get from being hungry for success, knowing that this is the only mean for survival etc. Monetary gain is comforting for the mind and body, but tbh i think it changes your perspective on things, in a more lazy way. True grinder, true successful person should be able to acknowledge this and try to overcome it by forcing oneself to work harder. Which i'm trying and find it pretty hard. But there are improvements.

what is the minimum requirement to start as a pro? certain hourly rate over xxxk hands? how did you define it for yourself?
i'd say 400k hands, with hourly of about 50$/hr at the minimum

I think we need more questions, napsus ship us some more q's~

1

Ankimo · 02-24-2012, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shamaha

Ironically I'm studying investment analysis (MsC) and will be looking for jobs in finance and investment banking this summer.

.

Do this if you really love it but just to manage your expectations, the industry has changed so much this year that banks are shrinking like crazy and they are closing entire divisions (i.e RBS dropping entire equities division). My point is, it's extremely hard to get in now and there are alot of people on the sidelines who have been laid off in the past 2yrs.

If it's the money that is luring you, that too is changing as we speak. Banks are capping bonuses for most staff and only the top top earners are going to get the sick bonuses you hear of.

1pocketjunky · 02-24-2012, 03:05 PM

As compared to a lot of the online community who posted in this thread I'm relatively new to online poker, 8 months so far. I began playing online regardless of the current US situation. Started playing NLH and found I either broke even or just made a small profit, or at times lost my bankroll.

Prior to playing online I was a live player for roughly 4 years, winning a lot of the games I got into from .25/.50 up to 2/5. Truthfully I'm know where near "pro" status but I do like to think I'm a decent/good online reg when it comes to PLO (won't even play NLH unless it's a tourny, the tournys I almost always make the money or bubble...rarely ever get halfway then get knocked out)

Capable of making a decent win-rate playing 2 PLO tables. Unfortunately at the moment I don't make much at my real job so paying bills is hard, but I have been able to fall back on money won from poker.

What I've done is taken 30% of winnings off the site(s) I play on. While doing that I can keep my BR intact for the next level. All the while having a stop-loss which isn't anymore than 3-4BI's a day, I've done that so if I profit 8BI's the day prior, I know I'll atleast have half saved worse case.

If anyone's seriously wants to play more online you'll need to learn more on tilt control, BRM, Stop-Loss, etc, etc. And playing 1 table, personally is boring, so I try to play 2 or 4 tables of PLO...I know it makes for more I can lose, but also creates more winning opportunities.

Aside from poker, def make sure you're happy outside of poker. Either that be relationships, friendships, work or college...make sure priorities are right. Helps myself when I have a little variance come my way.

coon74 · 02-25-2012, 12:57 PM

As a confirmed tilted fishy wannabe with little volume, I can't give any advice. Instead I'd like to ask pros a question that seems not totally covered itt yet.

What non-BI investments into your poker career - into books, vids, coaching, soft, databases, monitors and mice, engagement for tilt control

thx PokerDisciple for the mem, apartments, emigration and learning foreign languages etc - and at which limits have you made and how would you change these decisions if you were starting as a pro in the current reality - after Black Friday and other bans, with PPT, freepokerdb etc?

It's a really good thread by napsus but the responses are really demotivating me:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash05

one more thing i realized after going pro are the working hours. most who play semiprofessional and try to be sucessful in both areas know howits like to work 40-60h/week and add another 20h/week playing poker. i did it myself for years and thought that going pro and playing 40hours per week is a walk in the park.
well, its not. at least not for me. when i spent 10-12 hours a day in the agency, i probaly was working 3 hours max. effectivly. hem does track your hours very precise though, so took me some time to get used to real working hours.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1pocketjunky

Aside from poker, def make sure you're happy outside of poker. Either that be relationships, friendships, work or college...make sure priorities are right. Helps myself when I have a little variance come my way.

whereas it's life around that sucks and

Quote:

Originally Posted by this_passing

it would have to be a really special job because being my own boss and setting my own hours while playing in sweat pants and a t-shirt is the nuts

Do people really think that, with banks shrinking, there's hardly any way out of the daily grind as I observe it itt?

Take into account that poker (or any internet) income is not as dependent of the country you live in (only taxes and bans make the difference) as offline salary, so in poor countries it can be much bigger than the cost of living and the comparison to real jobs is more optimistic.

joppi · 02-26-2012, 03:34 PM

I have played poker two years for living now. I have played only heads up both texas and omaha past 6months mainly omaha. I think I have played same low mid stakes +-200 past four years now. Reasons I never haven't got higher is probably that I'm really lazy and self-indulgent person and I can get all income I need from these stakes pretty easily and with low variance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by napsus

do you separate poker bankroll and liferoll? how strict is your brm?
Nope. I think that all my possessions are my roll. I'm brm nit I have plenty of bins to those stakes I play online. In the live games I can take big shots some times though.
If I'd like to get more income and get better in poker I think I should take more shots and loose up a bit.

do you see yourself as a poker pro still 5 years from now?
No and yes. I would still like to play poker but I really like to have some other job and passion I could do.

what is your daily schedule like? grind all night, sleep all day?
I have tried it all.. Superior daily schedule for me is to wake up in the morning 9-10am get some coffee play from 11-13 go to gym play some more after it and quit poker for that day. Late night grinds just aren't for me. My focus, tilt control and whole thinking is waaaaaay better in the morning. I can remember many tilt sessions from 12pm----> where I have lost 10-40bins.. and not a single one that I have played in day time..

how much time do you spend studying the game vs grinding?
Longer I have played less I have studied. 2 years ago I studied really much but lately it hasn't got as much attention that it should. I talk about poker with my friend a lot and do my own hand analysis daily but that's about it if forums doesn't count. Should see more effort in studying.

do you regret dropping out of university for poker (in case you did drop out)?
Haven't get in yet. Trying again this year.

do you think working a normal job would be more rewarding overall?
Definately! It just depends on job. If you can find your own job where you can be good at and proceed in your career or just feel good about what you are doing I'm sure it would be more rewarding than playing poker for living.

if you are going for sne, how do you organize yourself so that you make sure you won't fail?
Super nova elite... lol. Those bitches are craaazy

did you have a "aha!" moment when you realized you wanna play poker for living?
Not then but I have had few "aha" moments in my way. Most important was that when I realized that I simply can't tilt or paly bad if I want to make it for living. Sounds weird but Tommy Angelos's book really opened my eyes and I started to see effort to my c game.

what is the minimum requirement to start as a pro? certain hourly rate over xxxk hands? how did you define it for yourself?

Good bank roll that you have build on your own and ability to treat it right. I don't mean that you have to be brm nit but you have to know what games you can play and when to move down and take a break from poker. I have seen so many guys go broke with their bank rolls just because they can't handle their rolls.

Quote:

Originally Posted by guimz

Finnaly, what is your edge? What makes you a better player than the field?

My A-game is superior on these stakes I play compared to normal reg. Not sure what I do better than others though.. Well one thing is really off with regs on these stakes. They can't fold. They fold maybe twice but third time they must call you. Also I think I tilt less than average players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by keanosdog

It seems from reading that a lot of you guys are just playing because of the money.

HOW many of you ACTUALLY LOVE poker now?

How many of you did love poker once but now don't/maybe even hate it but just keep doing it for the money?

I still love it. Some times when I grind two week through every day playing badly I wonder if it's worth it. But after getting one week break from poker it's always nice to come back and own some idiots

Johan5390 · 02-26-2012, 04:42 PM

Not rly a professional but more of a student whos only income happens to come from poker and is too lazy to work

Quote:

Originally Posted by napsus

do you separate poker bankroll and liferoll? how strict is your brm?

Nope, my living expenses are pretty low so dont feel like that's necessary for me. Just playing whatever I feel comfortable playing at the time, but like 250 bi for my lowest stake.

do you see yourself as a poker pro still 5 years from now?

I'd like to think so but ideally would prob be to have poker as a side income while having a normal job as long as im still profitable and making money at poker.

what is your daily schedule like? grind all night, sleep all day?

Play whenever I feel like it and got time basically, usually too late and too long sessions on weekdays which makes me skip school alot, too tired to study for tests and write essays etc. I've changed my sleeping schedule many times but for some reasons I always end up doing the same thing over and over again.

how much time do you spend studying the game vs grinding?

Never studied the game all that much, learned most from playing

do you regret dropping out of university for poker (in case you did drop out)?

Haven't dropped out, thought about it a few times (wasn't rly close tho) but feels pretty stupid to do now with only ~4 months left till graduation.

do you think working a normal job would be more rewarding overall?

Don't think so atm but in a couple of years most likely yes.

if you are going for sne, how do you organize yourself so that you make sure you won't fail?

Never considered going for it and don't think I ever will, would prob just end up burning myself out and I prefer trying to imrpove my game with less tables and move up in stakes over havin to masstable for a year. Respect to those who do it tho, esp the ones who crushes the game while maintaining the volume u need.

did you have a "aha!" moment when you realized you wanna play poker for living?

I guess in January/February last year when I started to beat the 100plo games I realized that I was decent and possibly had the potential to move up a bit in stakes (yep, I ran very good)

what is the minimum requirement to start as a pro? certain hourly rate over xxxk hands? how did you define it for yourself?

No idea, think it depends on yourself alot but guess I agree with what others have said already, at least 400-500k hands sounds reasonable