life as a plo pro - tell your story - Page 2 - Small Stakes Pot Limit Omaha

**napsus** · 02-22-2012, 09:52 AM

what separates a person from "i play poker" from "i am a poker player"?

G-Code · 02-22-2012, 10:25 AM

do you separate poker bankroll and liferoll? how strict is your brm?

no i dont seperate them. standard for me is 60bi for one limit

do you see yourself as a poker pro still 5 years from now?

we talk again if i win a major (ept,wpt etc.)

what is your daily schedule like? grind all night, sleep all day?

depends but i prefer playing at night

how much time do you spend studying the game vs grinding?

not much

do you regret dropping out of university for poker (in case you did drop out)?

no dropout

do you think working a normal job would be more rewarding overall?

no idea never had a normal job.

if you are going for sne, how do you organize yourself so that you make sure you won't fail?

i will never go for sne.

did you have a "aha!" moment when you realized you wanna play poker for living?

not really
what is the minimum requirement to start as a pro? certain hourly rate over xxxk hands? how did you define it for yourself?

dont worry to much about this stuff at all

shamaha · 02-22-2012, 02:27 PM

valuable threat imo

do you separate poker bankroll and liferoll? how strict is your brm?

No they merge. Large unneccessary living expenses force this. Typical BRM, maybe slightly underrolled 60-80BI.

do you see yourself as a poker pro still 5 years from now?

No thank you, would love to play recreationally and live though.

what is your daily schedule like? grind all night, sleep all day?

Currently studying a MsC so able to grind when I feel like online and since I'm primarily a live player, I play at weekends.

how much time do you spend studying the game vs grinding?

not as much as I should

do you regret dropping out of university for poker (in case you did drop out)?

still going at it

do you think working a normal job would be more rewarding overall?

In the long term- Yes. Short-term - No (considering starting salary for graduates in current economic climate < Poker monies)

if you are going for sne, how do you organize yourself so that you make sure you won't fail?

Don't possess the relevant knowledge to answer this.

did you have a "aha!" moment when you realized you wanna play poker for living?

I don't consider myself a 'pro' atall.

what is the minimum requirement to start as a pro? certain hourly rate over xxxk hands? how did you define it for yourself?

depends on the person. if someone thinks poker can fulfill their needs/wants/goals in life and they are ofcourse a profitable player (maybe min $50k/yr) then it's fine to pursue. Personally, I think the lifestyle and lack of social interaction and networking forces a bad lifestyle (in long term obv) which outweigh's the six fig/yr they might make playing.

**napsus** · 02-22-2012, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shamaha

do you think working a normal job would be more rewarding overall?

In the long term- Yes. Short-term - No (considering starting salary for graduates in current economic climate < Poker monies)

i see this comment often regarding starting slaries and wanted to give my thoughts on it.

these economic slumps are EXACTLY the right time to get in as an intern, trainee or entry level employee. you will have to earn your stripes anyway to move up the corporate ladder, so what's a better time to do than when everyone else is depressed. this way you are extremely well positioned when economy starts booming again and headhunters start calling, offering highers salaries...people move to different companies and then you're perfectly positioned for a raise.

i went to investment banking on july 2007, exactly at the moment when the markets peaked. my current position paid 150k+ bonuses at the time, nowadays there are no bonuses basically. those people who are motivated at these times are the ones banking in the big bucks when markets rally again.

Crazy_Leo · 02-22-2012, 02:57 PM

hey napsus, how did you get involved in investment banking? it seems like it would be a really interesting, fast paced line of work.

**napsus** · 02-22-2012, 03:02 PM

applied for an internship, got offered a job...5yrs later looking to quit.
fast paced, stressful...yes. that's why i want out.

shamaha · 02-22-2012, 04:18 PM

Ironically I'm studying investment analysis (MsC) and will be looking for jobs in finance and investment banking this summer.

But napsus, do you realise how difficult it is for people to get onto a graduate program? 10 of my undergrad friends (all acheiving a 2.1 minimum in accounting) applied for graduate jobs (in the big 4 plus smaller firms) and only one managed to get one at PwC. Obv i'm not giving you stats or anything but it seems the same with everyone around my age who I've spoke to. I'm still contemplating what I'm going to do ('poker pro' or job.. leading towards the latter) so I face a big decision soon...

**napsus** · 02-22-2012, 04:24 PM

from my personal point of view banking is not worth it. if you think it's your calling, then go for it. but you'll end up working loooong hours with ****ty hourly, get into bad habits, it changes you as person to be more money-centered and greedy, it burns you out really fast etc...then again some people have been there for 15-20yrs and they are having the time of their lives

hockeyhero31 · 02-22-2012, 05:04 PM

Great idea for a thread! Will post my story later on tonight

Kenny Bania · 02-22-2012, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoerfSt

I once quit my job to play full time. It lasted 18 months before I looked for a job again. I made about 2x the amount I would have at my 9to5 job. I loved the freedom and not having to work for anybody else gave me an amazing sense of accomplishment. I did not have to make 20k a month to be happy, going snowboarding or relaxing for a couple of weeks in the south of france whenever I wanted is worth a lot more to me then having a steady 'meaningful' job. I think that a lot of students itt are very naive thinking they will find a dream job just because they went to school.

Sorry for my rant

I have a job now in a small internet company. I like my job and it's not your typical 9to5 company. People are very open minded and my boss loved the fact that I played poker and gave me a lot more responsibilities because of it.

Still, in terms of 'happiness' I'm not even close to how fulfilled I felt when I had all the freedom I wanted.

why did you stop playing poker full time?

kick2dante · 02-22-2012, 07:39 PM

well i played online tourneys for years lots of PLO but also nlhe massive fields and hi low, started playing a lot of PLO8 cash games on UB last february was doing well thought i had finally found some nice low variance money to keep me afloat while waiting for the big tourney scores.... then black friday hits, half my money is taken from me (and i didnt have a lot to start with)

know im not a great player but i am really patient (thanks to the chronic) and get my money in good 98% of the time

had played plenty of live PLO at venetian so thats my new plan i guess that weekend of black friday i lose every race and lose a quarter of my just cut in half roll, switch to 1-3 holdem just to make it to the summer because june is like xmas for live players

get to june start playing PLO again the 1-2 games that had been amazing the past 2 years were not at all, the action players played the 2-5 and i didnt have the roll for it..... had an awful summer almost went broke

grind through aug and september then hit the 2nd live rush ive ever had in october (been out here 5.5 years and have had 2 lives rushes lasting a total of about 6 weeks.... fun life) run my small bankroll up to an amount that i think can take the inevitable downswing that will follow at some point, run pretty bad in november but have one huge day that sort of evens it out..... grind along till the end of january and then hit an awful streak

venetian changes its 1-2 PLO structure to allow a $10 button straddle and deeper buy ins, makes for amazing preflop spots if you want to short stack and limp re-pot, but i know my life and realize this is gonna crush me.... not shockingly i lose 13 of my first 15, all of them were profitable ev wise but one and ran it twice for a lot of them.... some of them werent even flips....

so i head over to arias 1-3 to lower the variance and play a post flop game, get unlucky there and realize im crazy and switch to holdem a couple weeks ago

if i had started with a bigger bankroll i would be able to handle the swings, but i didnt and i had to give up before this recent down swing broke me.... but who knows maybe it was over and i was gonna go on a heater......

DRoseMJD · 02-22-2012, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kick2dante

well i played online tourneys for years lots of PLO but also nlhe massive fields and hi low, started playing a lot of PLO8 cash games on UB last february was doing well thought i had finally found some nice low variance money to keep me afloat while waiting for the big tourney scores.... then black friday hits, half my money is taken from me (and i didnt have a lot to start with)

know im not a great player but i am really patient (thanks to the chronic) and get my money in good 98% of the time

had played plenty of live PLO at venetian so thats my new plan i guess that weekend of black friday i lose every race and lose a quarter of my just cut in half roll, switch to 1-3 holdem just to make it to the summer because june is like xmas for live players

get to june start playing PLO again the 1-2 games that had been amazing the past 2 years were not at all, the action players played the 2-5 and i didnt have the roll for it..... had an awful summer almost went broke

grind through aug and september then hit the 2nd live rush ive ever had in october (been out here 5.5 years and have had 2 lives rushes lasting a total of about 6 weeks.... fun life) run my small bankroll up to an amount that i think can take the inevitable downswing that will follow at some point, run pretty bad in november but have one huge day that sort of evens it out..... grind along till the end of january and then hit an awful streak

venetian changes its 1-2 PLO structure to allow a $10 button straddle and deeper buy ins, makes for amazing preflop spots if you want to short stack and limp re-pot, but i know my life and realize this is gonna crush me.... not shockingly i lose 13 of my first 15, all of them were profitable ev wise but one and ran it twice for a lot of them.... some of them werent even flips....

so i head over to arias 1-3 to lower the variance and play a post flop game, get unlucky there and realize im crazy and switch to holdem a couple weeks ago

if i had started with a bigger bankroll i would be able to handle the swings, but i didnt and i had to give up before this recent down swing broke me.... but who knows maybe it was over and i was gonna go on a heater......

i wanna do this and go PROOOOOOOOO

Kaipaine · 02-22-2012, 08:49 PM

I've been toying around with a thought of playing poker for the summer (I'm a first year student in a Finnish university). At the moment the plan seems to be that I combine poker + little bit of studies, to get me a plan B if I fail at poker, because "the government" will pay my rent if I just study enough.

Anyway. People here have made solid points about playing poker for real/for income and after reading this I've gained more perspective. I'm not having any crazy dreams earning 1M/year or so but the 'freedom' one might gain by playing poker is very tempting. Well, additionally my gf hates poker and that doesnt make my life at home any easier ;p

Don't know what my point really was. Just felt like sharing (it's 4am in the morning here). It just seems that many of you arent really "recommending" playing poker for serious income. Is it really like that or have I misunderstood something?

hockeyhero31 · 02-22-2012, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by napsus

do you separate poker bankroll and liferoll? how strict is your brm?

not very strict but pretty conservative now more so than in the past. I remember there were times when i was playing 10-20+ where id over 100k online and way way less than that in real life money. Everything was going great till i lost over 30k in a weekend and made me ponder wtf am i doing? Id ask myself, if i were to go bust this would all be for nothing. So, after that weekend i withdrew more than half my online roll and returned back to midstakes. So, now i completely separate the two so i have something to fall back on if a worst case scenario were to ever occur

do you see yourself as a poker pro still 5 years from now?

I certainly hope not but fear that i will still be doing this approaching almost 30yrs old. If i am still making the money i make now than i guess i see no problem with it but money is not everything. If you still enjoy playing and are happy doing what you doing then continue doing so. If you are miserable and playing because you have too, then i think it may be time to move onto another career and maybe return to poker in the future.

what is your daily schedule like? grind all night, sleep all day?

Really good now actually. Usually wake up between 8-10am, eat breakfast go the gym, eat lunch and then play in the afternoons (peak euro hours). You feel so much better about yourself and your poker game when you are have a good sleep schedule.
I feel i am at my worst when i play late at night for several hours before i go to bed. Nothing worse than trying to sleep and thinking about the big hands you lost only to fall asleep and be terrorized by poker nightmares. These are the absolute nut low and result in a very poor sleep resulting in the following afternoon off to a miserable start.
how much time do you spend studying the game vs grinding?
hardly any studying at all nowadays. I probably should start my opponents that regularly get the best of me a little more but find myself playing instead. I use to study alot about PLO when i first starting out and was really struggling hard. I got my hands on a ton of articles and watched some pretty good cardrunners videos to learn as much as i could. Also, i reviewed hundreds of hands of regs that were winning at the same stakes as i was playing and really learned a lot about what they were doing right and more importantly what i was doing wrong. When PT3 released its HH's with % attached it basically rejuvenated my game.

do you regret dropping out of university for poker (in case you did drop out)?

Never dropped out, finished my 4yrs. I wasnt making a ton of money at poker when I was at school till towards the end but made enough to be considered a 'baller' amongst all my friends. Party Poker 100NL were the good old days my friends.

do you think working a normal job would be more rewarding overall?

This is a question that i get asked a lot. No amount of money won in a session can be as rewarding as other jobs in the real world. This is the one thing i really miss about having a real profession/career. I don't really get the sense of job satisfaction after a 'hard days work' of cards. I miss the social atmosphere that comes along with employment whether that is the small talk at work or after the job beers with some of your co workers. Even if you are having a ****ty day at work, there is always someone that can make you put a smile on your face by days end. However, with poker none of that is really possible.
Your goal in poker is to win as much money from your opponents. There is no other reason for playing and if you disagree with me then you should not even try going pro. There are no friends in poker, only acquaintances that you would have never met/ even bothered to sit down at the same table unless it was for poker. While in school, this was not an issue for me as i was always surrounded by friends and peers but as the years have gone on, friends from school slowly start to fade away. If you do not have a group of friends from the real world, poker will probably make you miserable. It is essentially to have friends like these that are able to keep you grounded and maintain a healthy and balanced life.
In regards to live poker, I dont' know how live pros do what they do. They surround themselves with some of the worst people on this earth and are constantly in and out of casinos. They are all skinny fat from the horrible food and lifestyles they live and have some of the worst social skills i have seen from grown adults. Sometimes its hard to believe that how 35 yr old men can truly act like children for hours on end. Anyways, i could go on about the pitfalls of live poker forever but ill save that for another day.

if you are going for sne, how do you organize yourself so that you make sure you won't fail?

I was going to go for supernova this year till i realized how many hours/ hands you really have to play. Playing that many hands would just simply turn me into a zombie and would suck all the life out of me. After a week of playing (lol) i realized that this was not for me. As i have stated before maintaining a healthy and balanced lifestyle is key to being a successful poker player. Theoretically, it is possible to succeed without it but i surely would lose out on some of the finer things in life and this just wasnt worth it to me for an extra 15-20k.
did you have a "aha!" moment when you realized you wanna play poker for living?

Made almost 10k (NO RAKEBACK) my last month at school playing 100NL 200NL and 400NL and thought this is the sickest thing in the world.! Im going to be millionaire in a few years time if i keep this up!! delusional 21 yr old kid i was.

what is the minimum requirement to start as a pro? certain hourly rate over xxxk hands? how did you define it for yourself?

Id say if you are not making more than $50/hr than dont do it. There are no health or housing benefits associated with playing poker. Good luck convincing a landlord you are good for the money or getting a mortgage unless you put up a substantial amount of money up front. Also, id say you better have up to 8-12 months living expenses saved up so you have some money to fall back on if **** hits the fan. This is where i truly feel awful for some of the guys that had a large % of their rolls on FT. No one saw this coming and it has left some very successful players to start from scratch all over again.

hope you all enjoyed it and look forward to reading more of your guys stories.

DRoseMJD · 02-22-2012, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaipaine

I've been toying around with a thought of playing poker for the summer (I'm a first year student in a Finnish university). At the moment the plan seems to be that I combine poker + little bit of studies, to get me a plan B if I fail at poker, because "the government" will pay my rent if I just study enough.

Anyway. People here have made solid points about playing poker for real/for income and after reading this I've gained more perspective. I'm not having any crazy dreams earning 1M/year or so but the 'freedom' one might gain by playing poker is very tempting. Well, additionally my gf hates poker and that doesnt make my life at home any easier ;p

Don't know what my point really was. Just felt like sharing (it's 4am in the morning here). It just seems that many of you arent really "recommending" playing poker for serious income. Is it really like that or have I misunderstood something?

theres just a lot of better options that will leave you better off in the future (uni, job, uni). you can't replace a guaranteed paycheck, variance gunna variance