2/2 live, 5 players (It's a must move table)

sb = $700
bb (Hero Q J T 7)= $400
utg
co
button

Table just went from 7 handed to 5 handed.


preflop:
utg straddles to $5, co calls, button folds, sb pots to $22, hero calls, utg/co folds

in the 2hrs we've played, sb has never been out of line preflop.
and I've never seen him raise from the blinds.
I put him on AAxx.

flop (pot= $54): q 7 4
sb bets $50, hero calls

called instead of raise for pot control

turn($154): 9
sb bets $125, hero calls

since he's betting out again, I put him on nfd.
even if I push, he's not folding. thus a call?

river ($404): 4
sb checks, Hero ?


I have $200 left.
I know I'm not going to win this hand at showdown.

and since I'm calling all the way, he could put me on a straight wrap (4-5-6-7).
He has check/called before when he put a player on a busted flush draw.

but that pot was like $100 and the opposing player bet like $60.
$200 Is a lot more than $60.

push and hope to get him off his hand?
or give up this pot and save the $200?

What would you do? and more importantly, Why?

Really really easy shove on the turn

as played check river

I really don't play much PLO but why not gii on the turn? The pot is huge and if you out him on aces and nut flush draw you're 60% and that's basically worst case, no? He's probably not folding that hand ott which is great, we get our money in super good. As played I guess I sigh check and expect to win about 20% of the time

so the reason to check the river and not push is the read I have on villain?

how about against an unknown?
still check the river instead of trying to push him off his hand?

FOr the love of god please dont try to bluff people off overpairs here. you rep zilchhhhhhh

i'd say the chances of getting value from worse on the river are infinitely better than the chances of folding out better (since you fold out better exactly never)

No, this is why we shove .

Sometimes when I'm villain here I call with AKQJ because I'm like "lolwot he can't have anything" and then I get owned

You would of made this hand much easier to play if you just shoved the turn. You have straight draw - 2 pair and it's very unlikely you are behind. He could have a set but given the action pre and flop I doubt it (Plus you hold blockers to 77 and QQ). It's very likely he has a pair + flush draw.

On river you are done - just give up. You can't rep a 4 and he should call based on how big the pot is.

By the way is this maryland live? I played omaha there like 4 times. It's really good action

Why is 5 handed must move?

the table feeds the main table so that the main table always have 9 players.
most people stop playing when it gets to 4 or 3 handed and just wait till someone new shows up. (or until he's moved to the main table.)

and yes DJ, it's md live.

Shove turn, not close.

As played give up.

funny thing is if I was sb and he had position on me, I would still check/call flop for pot control.
but i would donk pot the turn if its a safe card and shove on a non river even if it pairs the board.

but since he was still the aggressor on the turn, I didn't think a shove by me would accomplish anything.

What? You get to put more money into the pot as a favorite That is actually how you make money at poker

I think you're more than capable of deducing why shoving turn is advantageous to us here.

I guess it's a leak I have.

if I think I'm the favorite and he keeps betting into me, I'll just let him keep doing the betting especially if its near pot sized.
once he cedes control and checks, then i'll start doing the betting.

this leak saved me in this hand. (I would have lost if I pushed the turn.)
yeah, I know.. 20/20 hindsight.


and seeing him check/call someone in a previous hand because he put that person on a missed draw stopped me from push bluffing on the river.
if I didn't see that, I probably would have pushed.

the combination of the 2 saved $200 for me.


dumb luck... this time it helped me (instead of usually my opponent)

Possible scenarios ranked in order of EV when villain has AA+nfd:

1) you raise, he folds (lol);
2) you raise, he calls;
3) you call.

Yeah but that is obviously the wrong way to think. On this river you saved money and on a club river you would have saved money but unless he calls/shoves on all blanks you lose long term. If you think you get his stack whenever you are ahead and lose no more when behind then its fine but if you expect him to check fold or aren't willing to value bet yourself on blank rivers then shoving turn is better.

If your read on the turn is correct shoving can never be bad but if you have a handle on his river play as well calling is not a mistake.

yeah, this.

You aren't applying fallacious reasoning or anything you're just slowplaying in a spot where it isn't so great to do so. The main problem is that there aren't many blanks for this board. For just about any river card that doesn't help villain (except maybe a 2), we really aren't sure if he's calling. But due to stack sizes and our read, we are sure he's calling turn. Simply put, us saving money on club and ace rivers doesn't compensate for our lost value when a straight possibility scares him out.

If villain is the biggest donk in the universe and will just call/shove any river, then yeah, slowplaying turn is correct.