I've had this situation come up a couple of times, I think i get far too excited and just try to get the $ in with just middle set and not much else, it's zoom and no reads.

Looking back at the hand I'm still undecided, (think flush and straight draws also call as well as QQ)

So yeah, how would you play the hand from the flop?


Cheers for any help

This is always meh. I like the flop raise cause we are going to be behind most of the time and villains betsize is pretty weak. Now this is like 100% of the time either top set or the monster draw. We are down to one out against the top set and vs the draw we have about a coinflip

pokenum -o tc 4c 9h td - as ks jh kd -- 7s qs th
Omaha Hi: 820 enumerated boards containing Qs 7s Th
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Tc 4c Td 9h 405 49.39 415 50.61 0 0.00 0.494
As Ks Kd Jh 415 50.61 405 49.39 0 0.00 0.506

Villain can have a couple of weaker draws but in practice I don't see them being that aggressive with those hands a lot.
Of course raising and then folding on a shove sucks and our hand is strong but given that it's 200bb deep and we have only a relatively small investment done yet I think this is one of the times this is actually the right decision.

If that is a fold at 200BB then I do not think it is a call pre! How are you making money if it feels sick and there is a higher card to the flopped 1 in 8 set 70% of the time.

Sets in PLO are not that strong you are often flipping on the flop or drawing to Quadies.

Hard to make money OP minimising losses is not terrible. 20 Cents I call. 25 Cent I think it is close. 30 Cent I am snap folding.

Yes huge draw or set. Think I pay it off but a huge draw often plays better to flat so most unbalanced (bad) players lean towards a set, in my view. But think you have to call given pre since what are you hoping for top set this will only occur less than 0.125*0.3= less than 4% of the time. Will you get enough action when you do?

Fold pre, Fold/Call do not hate the raise but raise folding a hand this strong is strategically insane.

Edit -

Overall: Cooler maybe bit loose pre stack size is also super duper awks you want a hand that is super nutty with 200BB esp

Definitly a better defend at 100BB

One thing to note at these stack depths (even sometimes at 100bb) your best case scenario is you get it in nearly flipping, but worst case you're drawing to one out. Basically, you're never getting it in as a significant equity favourite. Sometimes it's good to add something as strong as this to your c/c range and potentially c/jam brick turns now that monster draws have less equity.

I think playing 200BB we are too deep to play fit or fold only. I think your story would hold if it were for a 100BB or less but this deep this changes things.
We make money by making better postflop decisions than our opponents. And this is a situation in which we can show that.

Yes it is a potential RIO hand because we have or are drawing to a non-nut hand most of the time. But given the price preflop and we are closing the betting I think it's a call pre but we have to continue cautiously postflop. If we can't do that I think folding pre would be a wise decision.

I don't think I would raise flop this deep even with a Q blocker. Depends how well villain plays against raises and what he would do with top 2.

The problem with raising flop is that we need both a safe turn and safe river to ever be happy when he calls since we can't get stacks in (this is the wettest flop without a str+ possible). He can conceivably call your raise and bluff you out on half the deck whether it hits his draw or not. You will have to check on A-6 and spade turn cards.

I fold this preflop.

Donk flop

I would probably check call flop. Folding preflop is probably too weak but definitely attractive given playability

there are hands that go all in that aren't top set on that board. i never fold ever. i'm a whale though.. like one handed PLO 1/2 with 600 pre-flop madness

The first sentence is certainly true, but the important thing is how many.

If villain's pot-size raise indicates he's not raise/folding, and if he's stacking off with the best 10% of hands in his entire preflop range (a reggy CO opening range, stack-off hands being: QQ, decent TT/77, lots of good A, lots of other good combo draws, some two pair + strong draw hybrids, etc.)*, he has a non-QQ hand almost half the time (after card removal!), but we still have only a bit less than 30% equity against that range.


*This is not a range or an approach I'd endorse against skilled opposition, but that doesn't matter here.

Ah ok so looks like even when I do get the stacks in I'm never particularly going to be a decent favourite, I'll just try and keep the pot small and call down on non dangerous cards in similar situations in the future

Cheers for answers guys

^That

Raising is so stupid,he will fold all air and you take away the opportunity for him to double barrel, he only continues with QQ,KJss,AAKss,hands that have us dominated.

c/c flop and jam a blank turn.

Id fold pre. Our position is just too weak imho.
As played i would c flop and see the turn rather than c/rai. We are deep, and stacking off with middle set is bad. The only thing we beat that calls our flop c/r is FD and even then you are not in a good position. You lack redraws and stacking off(deep) is very bad.