(sorry for my bad english..)

Hi there!
I know that his topic is an often discussed one,
but I have found calculations and suggestions in both directions here and in other boards.
So I just want to get this question solved now and for all times (at least for me):

Is ploXXX with 5% rake without any cap beatable longterm?

Just moved to a new town and tried a new "homegame".

Facts about me:
- plo10 winningplayer on ipoker
- solid holdem-background up to nl400 live at the local casino, but got bored with nlh
- playing tight at this livegame, mostly just 3betting aces if I can get 50% of stack in, mostly try to limp/rr aces oop because of no possibillity of getting a pot headsup (very loose preflop play, at least 3 way mostly every pot)
- I am not very experienced in deep-stack playing, so I tend to leave if I get to aprox. 300bb deep

Facts about the game:
- Plo100 (just one, variable, blind, mostly 1€, no small blind)
- 5-8 handed (avg 7)
- Great dealer with 28-33 (avg 30) hands / hour
- Rake: rounded up to (slightly above sometimes) 5% without cap,
- Dealer raked about 100€ (100bb) / hour
- Players starting with 50bb (3/7) or 100bb (4/7)
- rebuying bigger (sometimes 200bb)
- often straddels, mississippi, voluntarily bigger bigblind (some times 3€)
- very loose preflop action
- free drinking
- sometimes free pizza orders
Calculation with numbers in my favour:
- 33 hands/hour
- 100bb rake/hour -> 300bb rake/100hands
- Lets say I pay about 1/11 (and not as expected 1/7) of hourly raked amount (because I play tighter than the others) -> so I pay about 25bb/100 hands of rake.

So I have to be at least a 25bb/100 winning player to get at least even, right?
The problem is that I dont know how high my expected winrate in these games is.
I'd assume that 25bb/100 is possbible but very unlikely.

I dont want to make a living of those games,
I am a student, and I can afford to play, but what I dont want is bleeding money with poker.
Dont get me wrong: I dont expect to get an hourly of 10€, but I'd like to at least get something like 4-5€/hour playing ( to cover gas allowance, ... , ..).
So I should at least be a 40bb/100 winner in this game to achieve this and I dont think that this is possible.

Please correct my calculation if you think I missed something.
I would really appreciate an objective discussion about this topic since I am really not sure of how to deal with invitations to games like described.

Thanks for reading!

25bb/100 is easily possible at a live plo game, but you seriously need to get comfortable playing deep faster than ****. This is where you'll start getting those hilarious pots your way. Not 100bb deep.

I recently played in a (converted to dollar) $2/$4 game, minbuyin $400, max buyin $2000. This game played (and I'm not even remotely joking when I say this) worse than any $10PLO Stars game I've ever played in. There was so much sick **** going on, I spent most of my time there smiling and laughing.

All this said; with no cap on the rake, you'll never have a high enough hourly for there to be a monitary point for you sitting there. So use it for social situations imo. Take a live-evening every now and then, play, have fun and get some live experience for later spots in life where you might need/gain from that.

Thanks for your evaluation

What do you think about my calculation?
Would you assume same parameters?

The "problem" is, I have a small bankroll of about 1500$ (I split online and live-br.)
Today I bought in for just 50bb (to follow at least something you could call BRM..)
I think starting with 50bb (wich was very easy to double up) makes it much harder to beat this game?

You didn't actually make any calculations worth discussing. Just some statements about the hands/hour etc, people's buy-in tendencies. It's impossible to tell your winrate, for so many reasons. Sample size, play, drunkeness of you and others.

If your total bankroll (dedicated to poker) is $1500, I would not bother going to those games (at this time). As I said, at those stakes, with those (average) stacksizes, you'll win with decent play. But you'll win "scraps". And the variance will be huge, because for you to maximize your winrate, assuming that you are a competent and somewhat good live player, you will need to get into a lot of close spots where you are pushing a marginal equity advantage, since you are only playing 30ish hands / hour, you can't very well "go for volume".

This might sound ******ed, but if you are winning at $10PLO at this moment, it would take you about 100 hours of (really solid) poker work to be a winner at $50 or $100 PLO. And I don't mean "reading 2+2", or answering "I SHOVE HERE" in some random "I 3bet 9853ds for playability OOP, now what do I do"-post. From that point on, you'll be comfortable playing 300bb+ deep in the live game, with a decent roll, and you can take it from there.

Also; buying in for $50/€50 in a live 7handed+ PLO game with uncapped rake is boardering total ******ation.

Thanks for your opinion!
Any other personal experience reports ? :-)

5% uncapped rake? Yea dude, run the other way.

you're not going to make much money with that rake. but if you're just trying to get massively drunk and full on pizza you can just nit it up and probably consider it +EV.

Printing money.

Hallo, breytex.
Ich wohne auch in Aachen! Ist der Ort, von dem du sprichst zufällig "Fat Buddha"?
Würde auch mal sehr gerne PLO spielen, außerhalb eines total überteuerten Casinos!

LG

I'm not sure that 5% no cap is that much worse than 10% with a $5 cap at live 100PLO.

That said, even if someone is seemingly smart person with some self-study and a few thousand hands experience, I'm betting against them to beat SSPLO. Rake is still just too much. You need a strong enough understanding of the game to absolutely murder your opponents, and even then your winnings will probably only be around $10 an hour.