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Bottom set and oesd: given the action is this always a fold? Bottom set and oesd: given the action is this always a fold?
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10-03-2013 , 05:17 AM
#1
vespino
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Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 65
    Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10, $0.02 ante Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 4 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    CO: $18.74 (187.4 bb)
    BTN: $25.43 (254.3 bb)
    Hero (SB): $25.18 (251.8 bb)
    BB: $12.20 (122 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with K 4 J 4
    CO raises to $0.43, BTN folds, Hero calls $0.38, BB calls $0.33

    Flop: ($1.37) T Q 4 (3 players)
    Hero bets $1.31, BB raises to $5.24, CO raises to $18.29 and is all-in, Hero folds, BB calls $6.51 and is all-in

    Turn: ($26.18) 5 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
    River: ($26.18) K (2 players, 2 are all-in)

    Spoiler:
    Results: $26.18 pot ($1 rake)
    Final Board: T Q 4 5 K
    CO showed 3 9 K J and won $25.18 ($12.98 net)
    Hero mucked K 4 J 4 and lost (-$1.76 net)
    BB showed Q Q 6 7 and lost (-$12.20 net)
    Bottom set and oesd: given the action is this always a fold? Quote
    10-03-2013 , 05:31 AM
    #2
    Hurry Harry's Avatar
    Hurry Harry
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    mmm interesting, I think we need to fold here as we are up against a set most of the time and especially more often vs the bigger stacked villain. If not a set then we are getting free-rolled by a combo draw. No way neither of those situations is in play.
    Bottom set and oesd: given the action is this always a fold? Quote
    10-03-2013 , 12:08 PM
    #3
    kamilk
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    Fold pre.

    Low pocket pairs are not really playable. Especially oop.

    As played bet/fold.
    Bottom set and oesd: given the action is this always a fold? Quote
    10-03-2013 , 12:10 PM
    #4
    faxek
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    Def fold pre. Think we are too deep to get it in otf as well.
    Bottom set and oesd: given the action is this always a fold? Quote
    10-03-2013 , 12:14 PM
    #5
    F_Ivanovic
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    Never folding here w/o reads. We are ahead a good % of the time and if not we have 9 outs most of the time.

    edit: Also I wouldn't fold pre.
    Bottom set and oesd: given the action is this always a fold? Quote
    10-03-2013 , 12:32 PM
    #6
    Ohlongjohnson's Avatar
    Ohlongjohnson
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    fold pre

    good fold on flop

    dont post action beyond your question
    Bottom set and oesd: given the action is this always a fold? Quote
    10-03-2013 , 12:35 PM
    #7
    Ohlongjohnson's Avatar
    Ohlongjohnson
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by F_Ivanovic
    Never folding here w/o reads. We are ahead a good % of the time and if not we have 9 outs most of the time.

    edit: Also I wouldn't fold pre.
    more like 6 outs to chop and 1 out to win most of the time
    Bottom set and oesd: given the action is this always a fold? Quote
    10-03-2013 , 12:52 PM
    #8
    F_Ivanovic
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ohlongjohnson
    more like 6 outs to chop and 1 out to win most of the time
    4 aces + 4 nines? And yes it will be chopped a lot but only vs one of the hands. If we chop vs BB but win vs CO we will still be making money.

    Against the actual hands we're only 17.87% but we're 36.22% vs QQ. If CO doesn't have a set we're going to be a big mistake by folding and if he does have a set we still have 9 outs vs them.

    Hand Equity Wins Ties
    AdKsJd8c 31.38% 176 99
    Kd9dJs3s 9.16% 28 99
    4c4hJcKh 59.46% 363 99

    (as an example of why folding is bad)
    Last edited by F_Ivanovic; 10-03-2013 at 01:00 PM.
    Bottom set and oesd: given the action is this always a fold? Quote
    10-03-2013 , 02:03 PM
    #9
    vespino
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ohlongjohnson
    fold pre

    good fold on flop

    dont post action beyond your question
    Thanks - I agree that I should have folded pre.

    I used HM2 to post the hand - it did everything automatically including putting in the spoiler button - so I didn't even think about trimming the hand history. Will try and trim it next time so that responses can't be results oriented at all.
    Bottom set and oesd: given the action is this always a fold? Quote
    10-03-2013 , 03:18 PM
    #10
    OmahaDonk
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    Fold pre. GII on flop and realize why you should fold pre again
    Bottom set and oesd: given the action is this always a fold? Quote
    10-03-2013 , 03:56 PM
    #11
    vespino
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OmahaDonk
    Fold pre. GII on flop and realize why you should fold pre again
    When I lead in to two others and I'm raised and re-raised am I really getting it in on this flop?
    Or are you saying 'if you get it in on this flop you will realise why you should fold pre'|/
    Bottom set and oesd: given the action is this always a fold? Quote
    10-03-2013 , 07:13 PM
    #12
    tightywhity
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    I'm by no means an expert but I'd fold pre but analysing the hand as played I would fold on the flop as I'm likely up against a bigger set which means you only have an open ended straight draw and I'd be folding that against this action.

    Now, if you had a flush to go along with it I'd likely consider calling although granted I haven't run any calculations or anything but that'd be my play
    Bottom set and oesd: given the action is this always a fold? Quote
    10-03-2013 , 07:59 PM
    #13
    OmahaDonk
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    It's probably just a fold for 180+BB but I don't see myself doing it in game. Isn't this the 2nd best flop for us (switch diamonds to clubs and it's #1)?

    FWIW I think the mistake of GII 3 ways when someone has a set is smaller than the mistake of folding when we have monstrous equity like in F_Iv's example, and I bet it's not far from 50-50 here that someone has a bigger set.
    Bottom set and oesd: given the action is this always a fold? Quote
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