Villain is 55/35/20 maniac regfish, unsure how do describe him. Plays a few tables like hes on crack.
Keep in mind im still new to PLO, i get stuck in these spots quite often. Since I flopped a gutter here with my AA I decided to bet call. However, I can see my equity isnt great vs his holding and I am unsure how good/bad I am doing overall vs his range here. His fold to 3b oop is 8 over 500ish hands and opens 24% in ep. Checking feels weak here, is it correct though?
What if we dont have a gutter and have something like AAJ6 I would check back and probably fold most turns (as opposed to stacking the flop)?
As played, check flop. Pot/calling is probably slightly +EV, but if we play half-decent poker when flop gets checked through checking should be better.
As played, check flop. Pot/calling is probably slightly +EV, but if we play half-decent poker when flop gets checked through checking should be better.
Ok, you win, there I said it. I was wrong in that other thread.
check flop -= you're probably 60/40 dog vs one pair flush draw(which is the best outcome . better to play this on the turn as if flush draw hits you get out of it. the 3 that does hit means its difficult for him to jam to pressure now as his 2 pair draw is dead
check flop -= you're probably 60/40 dog vs one pair flush draw(which is the best outcome . better to play this on the turn as if flush draw hits you get out of it. the 3 that does hit means its difficult for him to jam to pressure now as his 2 pair draw is dead
what if you check flop, flush hits, he bluffs and you fold? how much more often does he bluff you on scare cards vs. he actually has it?
check flop -= you're probably 60/40 dog vs one pair flush draw(which is the best outcome . better to play this on the turn as if flush draw hits you get out of it. the 3 that does hit means its difficult for him to jam to pressure now as his 2 pair draw is dead
This seems to be common logic in PLO. Check a lot of flops which is almost the complete opposite to holdem aggression. The thinking being a lot of villains are going to see the turn anyway so control the pot size but it seems like it would allow a lot of free cards to villains.
This seems to be common logic in PLO. Check a lot of flops which is almost the complete opposite to holdem aggression. The thinking being a lot of villains are going to see the turn anyway so control the pot size but it seems like it would allow a lot of free cards to villains.
Say we check back on flop. What are we doing on turn? If villain bets pot into us or checks to us?
This is where all of your history and reads, timing and sizing tells, game flow, etc. come into play. It's hard to say because everything gets very hypothetical at this point, and depends on different variations of all of those factors.
Well yeah, that's why I asked the question. Based on what we know of the guy (55/35/20 maniac regfish, unsure how do describe him. Plays a few tables like hes on crack.) wdyd? I just think it's a more interesting discussion than flop play.
I like checking flop back and pot controlling this. Calling most of the turns probably and deciding river. Depends on turn sizing as well, as played can't fold.
Agree, not really a great spot to checkback when we aren't going to have a good feel for where we are on 75% of turns anyway (and might be drawing near dead when we guess wrong)
Bet/calling is obviously "fine" vs a maniac. No real reason to pot though, you're never folding a maniac off equity, so if we're going with the hand there's no reason to discourage action.
Anyway, if you believe you should have a checkback range, which IMO you should (especially against a maniac), checking back this hand and hands like it at least sometimes is perfectly viable if you don't want that range to be face up and weak. Lots of turns will be difficult but not necessarily -EV. Just fold if the flush draw completes. Call or shove on most blanks. I'm sorry that it upsets people, but there really are just too many turn/river scenarios to discuss in one post.
I know ppl who will over Cbet in this spot and OOP i think its best but since youre IP you can preety comfortably check and play turns.
Youre prolly not pushing much equity,even a gutter and a crap FD is preety much flippin vs your hand,and by the reads you provided i assume villain is snap jamming those hands otf.
You got easy turn bets on many board pairs,on any wheel card,even an A or K and you got usually easy folds on clubs since you dont block any so taking a turn and procceding from there seems the play to me.
I think this is a check back cause even tho villain is bad your almost never getting it in crushing here unless he has KK Which I remove from his range if he has a 20% 3bet he probably is 4 betting KK hands. We have the edge post flop so I think we should use it in high variance spots like this where rake is big. As played it's not a mistake but I think the more +EV play here is to check and re evaluate turn.
Agree, not really a great spot to checkback when we aren't going to have a good feel for where we are on 75% of turns anyway (and might be drawing near dead when we guess wrong)