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Small Stakes PL Omaha Discussion of 1/2 and below pot-limit Omaha poker

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Old 07-17-2017, 11:54 AM   #1
Slimer1984
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3 bet pot Preflop

He guys,

today i start with my hand questions.
sorry for bad syntax sometimes.

Quote:
    IPoker, $0.10/$0.20 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    SB: $20.42 (102.1 bb)
    Hero (BB): $24.13 (120.7 bb)
    UTG: $27.20 (136 bb)
    MP: $16.18 (80.9 bb)
    CO: $22.80 (114 bb)
    BTN: $20.07 (100.4 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with Q J Q T
    UTG raises to $0.70, 3 folds, SB calls $0.60, Hero raises to $2.80, UTG calls $2.10, SB calls $2.10

    Flop: ($8.40) 2 4 2 (3 players)
    SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets $5.80, 2 folds

    Spoiler:
    I think 3 bet from me is fine because , UTG has VPIP 47/ 3 Bet 9,4


    i think there are 2 cases possible ( i choose the check/fold because in this specific situation i was unsure what to do )

    1. i bet the flop ( how much ?! ), because i think he has no aces. and i dont give him bottem cards , with his 3 bet call

    2. i call the UTG bet

    what are your faforite line on this spot here.

    thanks a lot for your support.
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    Old 07-17-2017, 12:14 PM   #2
    Darkfangs
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    Re: 3 bet pot Preflop

    I would bet somewhere between 1/3 and 1/4 pot on flop with somewhere close to 100% of my range in this spot.
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    Old 07-17-2017, 01:00 PM   #3
    Gillingham
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    Re: 3 bet pot Preflop

    i bet flop around 2/3 of pot and expect folds

    Darkfangs, why do you bet 1/4 or 1/3 out of interest? don't you get played back at a lot more as it looks weak/ do you have a plan for further streets?

    just interested as I'm sure there is a good reason behind it

    cheers
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    Old 07-17-2017, 01:05 PM   #4
    Slimer1984
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    Re: 3 bet pot Preflop

    yeah , now when i think about this hand in a few moments of silence, i think i prefer to bet the flop with 1/3.

    if Villian raises i think we have to fold or ?!
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    Old 07-17-2017, 04:47 PM   #5
    Darkfangs
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    Re: 3 bet pot Preflop

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gillingham View Post
    Darkfangs, why do you bet 1/4 or 1/3 out of interest? don't you get played back at a lot more as it looks weak
    No, I would not expect to get played back at much unless they have a stronger hand than me. I would expect to get played back at much more when I make a larger sizing because the pot is larger. The bet size shouldn't be weak unless you are making it weak. I am playing my range here and not my specific holding, it just happens that in this case we have a nice overpair in a spot where they can't really have a higher pair than us.

    We just 3-bet a UTG open, which should mean we have a very strong hand, we are going to have premium rundowns, high pairs and not much of anything else. We honestly likely have more dangler 2s from our high pairs than UTG as well but that part isn't all that relevant. When we just have a bunch of high cards and no pairs we get a cheap bluff in and when we have overpairs we can get some thin value.

    2s and 44 will always call us, betting larger doesn't change that fact, we need play with the other hands in villians range where we are going to be making our money. What worse hand is going to be calling down when we bet 2/3 pot here with such a stronger range than them? The only hand that is beating us that we are worried about is really ****ty KK that should have folded pre by UTG. UTG is in a bad spot, it's very hard for him to call a bet in this spot with another player to act behind, also SB is likely to fold a huge percentage of his range here regardless of our bet size. We don't necessarily want to check here as we would like some protection against runner runners or random pairs hitting a 2 outer.

    Betting such a small size allows us to bet here with almost our entire range 90%, and there really isn't anything anyone can do about it. We than get to pick up a ton of pots when they fold to range advantage.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gillingham View Post
    do you have a plan for further streets?


    cheers
    My plan on future streets is to continue with the pressure for the most part. If I get a caller on the flop, then I will likely do the same play again on the turn. Betting small against weaker players will induce a ton of floats (very rarely any raises) I would expect a ton of folds on the turn when we make the same play. The hand does play out differently if there is a flush draw on the paired flop board but not significantly. The river can be either way and villain dependent, bet small again or check decide. The turn and river cards do matter for this as well. Less so with 422 but they can be very important on say 779 type boards.

    Compared to your 2/3 flop bet, on the turn we've now put in marginally the same amount of money in the pot, gotten a lot more info for their range, and put more pressure on for fold equity and we haven't overplayed our hand. This is going to benefit us much more on our AKJT type hands when we are just bluffing than our overpairs but you can't expect to get two streets of value with an overpair in that spot unless they play the hand that poorly. This way we make more money with our full range rather than just with our overpairs.

    If they do put in a huge raise than it's an easy fold, they can't really raise without having a very strong hand here with our big range advantage, so when we're beat we either lose less money than a 2/3 sizing or the same amount while having a bunch of other benefits for us including the possibility of ripping a 2 outer and getting their stack on the check-raise river.

    I know there are some galfond videos that discuss this in probably a better manner than I do and in more detail. I'm at work and don't really feel like digging them up but if you want to look into it go for it.
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    Old 07-17-2017, 05:43 PM   #6
    Gillingham
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    Re: 3 bet pot Preflop

    wow great detailed reply Darkfangs cheers, I'll have a look for Galfond's videos but think you have done a great job at explaining what I was wondering.
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    Old 07-17-2017, 06:10 PM   #7
    Loctus
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    Re: 3 bet pot Preflop

    OK so his vpip is 47 but what is his pfr? Because if it's normal/low he doesn't have many 2xxx or 44xx hands in his range at all

    I also think betting flop a small sizing between 1/4th and 1/3rd pot is good standard strategy on this flop as 3bettor
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    Old 07-17-2017, 06:42 PM   #8
    Darkfangs
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    Re: 3 bet pot Preflop

    Galfond only likes the small sizing with a huge portion of his range when we have a big range advantage. He goes for a 2/3 sizing in single raised pots, he said that going small in single raised pots or without a range advantage won't work against strong opposition but is very good against weak opposition. So take that as you will.
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