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3,5k Milestone: Starting Hand Chart for 6max 3,5k Milestone: Starting Hand Chart for 6max

07-26-2012 , 09:00 PM
Every now and then, there's questions about playable pre-flop ranges in the beginners' thread. As with all things in poker, the correct way to answer is "it depends". Despite that notion, I decided to give the noobs something to go on. The following chart mostly applies to opening, flatting or defending pre-flop in a vacuum - and since there's no such thing as a vacuum you can treat it as "average". It does not address 3betting.

You have to treat this range as imperfect, as it completely disregards table dynamics, stakes and other reads. If someone strongly disagrees with some part of it, I'm willing to alter it accordingly if so convinced.


BLINDS/UTG/MP:

AA/KKxx
QQxxds
AKQQ-QQJ8ss
AKJJ-JJT7ds/ss
AsQQx, AsJJx
QJTT-TT98ds/ss

AKQJ-T987ds/ss
AKQT-JT97ds/ss
AQJT, KJT9ds/ss

AsKQx-AsJTx
BBBxds

medium connectors + NFD
AsT98-876ds/ss

good doublepairs ~QQ22-8877


CO, add:

QQ/JJxx

TT97-76ds/ss
KQ99-9965ds/ss
QJ88-8876ds/ss
JT77-7765ds/ss

AsTTx-77x

9876-6543ds/ss
T986-7653ds/ss
T876-8654ds/ss

decent danglers:
AKQx-JT9xds/ss

low connectors + NFD
A765-543

decent doublegappers
KT97ds/ss-8753ds/ss

high ds multigappers
AT76ds-QT86ds

decent suited aces
AsQ98-AsT76

all doublepaired hands


BTN, add:

all* suited As (all but the worst, like As222)

random multigappers like QT86ss, 7642ds/ss



CLIFFS:

-nitty from blinds/EP
-open up from CO
-speculate from BTN

Now it's up to you to apply this average range to the table dynamics in the hand you're about to play. Nutty hands with poor floppability play better multiways and single-raised (or even limped), while non-nutty but well-flopping prefer HU and 3betting. Against tight players you gotto let the bottom of your range go, while reckless speculation can be justified vs a whale in some situations.

Have fun mixing it up!

Last edited by GoGetaRealJob; 09-23-2014 at 09:43 PM. Reason: revision
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07-26-2012 , 09:10 PM
First! Thanks GGARJ, I've always wanted one of these! Gonna print it out and stick it to my monitor
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07-26-2012 , 09:51 PM
So MP your not opening 9876DS?

Thx btw. This is awesome
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07-26-2012 , 10:35 PM
I made this one a couple of months ago if you remember the thread we made about it; I think it's a less evolved and nittier version of the one you made:

http://www.pokervip.com/strategy/pot...ng-hand-chart/

Keep in mind that nowadays I don't use any chart, I treat every preflop decision as different, I open up when there are fish in the blinds and nits IP, tighten up and start limping in EP with aggro regs in LP; so on so forth. Think the two hand charts are a good start to give a newbie an idea of what's playable though
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07-27-2012 , 04:56 AM
nice chart mate.

question: how do you feel about ****ty double pairs in EP . 3355ss or 6622ds?

also: nice chart yrmom. was meaning to ask, do you have any vids woth pokervip?
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07-27-2012 , 05:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pea-El-Oh
So MP your not opening 9876DS?

Thx btw. This is awesome
Well, I am, but I didn't wanna include it in this one, just about borderline. Def one to consider adding at least ds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yrmom
I made this one a couple of months ago if you remember the thread we made about it; I think it's a less evolved and nittier version of the one you made:

http://www.pokervip.com/strategy/pot...ng-hand-chart/

Keep in mind that nowadays I don't use any chart, I treat every preflop decision as different, I open up when there are fish in the blinds and nits IP, tighten up and start limping in EP with aggro regs in LP; so on so forth. Think the two hand charts are a good start to give a newbie an idea of what's playable though
Sorry, I'd totally forgotten about that, late into the pregnancy back then. Well, I guess there's some value in having two for comparison. Not drastically different anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steamingdonk
nice chart mate.

question: how do you feel about ****ty double pairs in EP . 3355ss or 6622ds?

also: nice chart yrmom. was meaning to ask, do you have any vids woth pokervip?
I often open those EP, but I don't think it's a good starting point.
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07-27-2012 , 07:34 AM
Oops, I had a deja vu moment reading the OP (in the first 5 minutes of its life) and realised only now that I had seen that PokerVIP chart.

It's a shame they hide authorship of articles. I didn't suspect that it was written by yrmom as it's too tight for him and has links to ash05's vids only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steamingdonk
question: how do you feel about ****ty double pairs in EP . 3355ss or 6622ds?
+1. I don't think that even QQ22 is playable from EP - the deuces have little set value. So I'd exclude a lot of double-paired hands, a big chunk of bad KK/QQ/JJ, add some deceptive low hands. Also, I think there's too little difference between ss and ds hands in GGaRJ's chart, some ss hands (like connected one-pair, broadways with danglers etc.) should be excluded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steamingdonk
also: nice chart yrmom. was meaning to ask, do you have any vids woth pokervip?
Inb4 self-advertising: yrmom's (Matt Ranger's) vids are funny as they contain specific ego-inspired humour, show a creative approach to PLO, and a big chunk of examples are like 'lol it was a misclick because I was 7-tabling' , but at least he has integrity to admit his mistakes not every coach has.

As far as PokerVIP goes in general, I'm in love with ash05 (Ashley Lapiz) due to clarity of presentation, also check out SGT RJ's (Nicole Rejiester's) psychology series.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoGetaRealJob
late into the pregnancy back then
GGaRJ is speaking as if he was pregnant, not his wife .
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07-27-2012 , 07:54 AM
Why do people do this?... now some random regs would have a decent openening range. Nice job man... makes serious sence
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07-27-2012 , 07:58 AM
I hope you make your Augustgoal as early as you made your July goal! wp
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07-27-2012 , 08:00 AM
I open waaaaay lighter from the btn
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07-27-2012 , 08:20 AM
GJ GGARJ
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07-27-2012 , 08:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustAmazing777
Why do people do this?... now some random regs would have a decent openening range. Nice job man... makes serious sence
This chart will help learning playable ranges, it's not useful if ur not willing to adjust it as needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by roggles
I open waaaaay lighter from the btn
And ur undoubtedly correct to do so, sir

Stealing can obv be done with any four vs nitty blinds, but this chart also includes flatting raises.
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07-27-2012 , 08:57 AM
Is QQ78ds stronger than QQJTds?

By stronger, I mean does it make more money.

BTW these starting hand charts are pretty useless in plo, they are so unstatic depending on situation it is ridiculous. If someone does not know about plo starting hands then they need ot read a book and learn the 'why' theory behind it.
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07-27-2012 , 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roggles
I open waaaaay lighter from the btn
yeah btn obvious the most "it depends" position with the most room for adjustments. nothing better than nits in the blinds that do not realise you opened every btn when folded to you.
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07-27-2012 , 09:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mt.FishNoob
Is QQ78ds stronger than QQJTds?

By stronger, I mean does it make more money.
No and no. QQJT has a better chance of dominating other draws.

Quote:
BTW these starting hand charts are pretty useless in plo, they are so unstatic depending on situation it is ridiculous. If someone does not know about plo starting hands then they need ot read a book and learn the 'why' theory behind it.
I agree, and have made this point ITT and elsewhere. That said, if someone wants to start grinding microstakes w/o a ton of preparation and learn by doing, a tool like this one is helpful.
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07-27-2012 , 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roggles
I open waaaaay lighter from the btn
My BTN opening range is pretty much "cards", but we shouldn't be teaching that to people
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07-27-2012 , 10:02 AM
There is nothing wrong with playing JJJ*
*=7-A or better on the Button.

These can be opened earlier depending on IP player tendencies

But I think 222*-666* should be folded everywhere

7777 is the quads nuts imo - against tight ranges its pretty easy to eliminate so many hands from their ranges that make low boards the nuts.
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07-27-2012 , 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoGetaRealJob
No and no. QQJT has a better chance of dominating other draws.



I agree, and have made this point ITT and elsewhere. That said, if someone wants to start grinding microstakes w/o a ton of preparation and learn by doing, a tool like this one is helpful.
Yeah it is definitely helpful if not a mandatory starting point, reinforces a positional awareness.

It would be cool if a starting hand chart had another scale or axis relative to plyrs/flop and then even factor %3b of players to left and then and then zzzzzzzz
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07-27-2012 , 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roggles
I open waaaaay lighter from the btn
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07-28-2012 , 09:05 AM
I open around 10% UTG/Blinds is that covering the range you gave us more or less? I can't put it all in my calculator to give me a % , I'm deeply sorry for my incompetence

Oh ok so now it makes sense who wrote the Pokervip chart though it makes sense yrmom does not use that chart at all for obvious reasons. Ash definitely does not use it as I know him IRL & i would get a heart attack if he did.
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07-28-2012 , 06:13 PM
I don't have it to hand at the moment as on mobile but when I started out learning PLO at the start of the year I took some time out to build an excel chart format that I was going to have auto populated via some VB coding based on the PPT ordering. I'll post it up in here on Monday evening....if anyone trying to understand ranges wants to use it to help with memorising wide
ranges
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07-29-2012 , 12:02 AM
Sounds great
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07-29-2012 , 11:24 AM
I'd love a look at that
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07-29-2012 , 02:17 PM
Nom this thread for August Digest.

It could be a compilation of texts on opening ranges (as soon as the authors agree), e.g. of yrmom's, GGaRJ's and TP2P's charts; passing's NutBlocker article 'HUD Stats Part 2 - Opponent Opening Ranges' also loosely fits into the topic.
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07-29-2012 , 02:42 PM
My spreadsheet is nothing special rly, more of an organised table than a chart tbh. And I didn't automate it in the end but will post it Monday eve as still away from pc...
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