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200 zoom - 500bb more with the 4th nuts? 200 zoom - 500bb more with the 4th nuts?

01-01-2014 , 07:11 PM
    Poker Stars, $1/$2 No Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #22011671

    Hero (BTN): $2,123.35 (1,061.7 bb)
    SB: $220.92 (110.5 bb)
    BB: $197 (98.5 bb)
    UTG: $1,253.77 (626.9 bb)
    MP: $254.61 (127.3 bb)
    CO: $324.51 (162.3 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BTN with A 6 5 6
    UTG raises to $7, 2 folds, Hero calls $7, SB calls $6, BB folds

    Flop: ($23) 6 3 A (3 players)
    SB checks, UTG bets $15, Hero raises to $55, SB folds, UTG calls $40

    Turn: ($133) 7 (2 players)
    UTG checks, Hero bets $122, UTG raises to $422, Hero ??




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    I don't know much about villian, he is 27/19 over 60 hands. He also has the thing on his avatar that shows he has earned more than one million VPPs, so he's a reg.

    Reasons for jamming -
    We block AA and we have to assume he 3 bets the flop with AA a lot of the time so we can remove that combo somewhat. If he does get to the turn with AA this way, i don't think he always decides to CR it either, even though given our blockers he will have AA + NFD about half the time.
    77 unlikely although possible, AcKc77 or something.
    How he plays his 45 I think is a big key to this hand. He doesn't raise pot on the turn. His sizing is going to leave $769 behind into a $977 pot on the river. He could, if he raised pot, leave $692 behind into $1131 (I think I got that math right, point is he doesn't raise pot which if he is going to raise with 45, i assume he would). Also I think a lot of his 45 combos just call the turn. 45 with a flush redraw I can definitely see him raising, but naked 45 I think just flat calls a lot to avoid being in check / decide for almost 400bbs spot on a lot of rivers.
    He can also have all of the huge draw combos with A789, AK89, A89T, although the weaker parts of those probably just flat call the turn. He can have double FD hands as well. AcXcXhXh

    Reasons for folding -
    Its 500 bb's and we could be almost dead. If he has a monster draw we are only a 60-65% anyway so we're not that big a favorite.

    Reasons for calling -
    I didn't want to have to make a decision on all the bad rivers as well, it also gives him the chance to check / fold some of his draws that I want to get the money in against now. I could definitely be convinced that calling is the best play though.

    Thoughts?
    200 zoom - 500bb more with the 4th nuts? Quote
    01-01-2014 , 09:12 PM
    fold
    200 zoom - 500bb more with the 4th nuts? Quote
    01-01-2014 , 09:26 PM
    funky... def leaning towards jamming with your blockers. He can have double FDs, hearts + turned wrap, ABBBcc, A7hh/cc. Your near-dead vs only ONE combo - turned set not included, obv. Would make a fun sim, but too tired now. Maybe tomorrow if I'm up for it.
    200 zoom - 500bb more with the 4th nuts? Quote
    01-01-2014 , 09:54 PM
    Problem is, he's repping 45. If he was calling down with his draw (any draw incl. FD) he's in a good spot to bluff if any draw hits on the turn as you played your set like a set. From the way he plays flop, it appears to be a draw. You're potentially facing the nuts or some kind of nut draw (which, as you said, you're not much of a favourite against anyway).
    200 zoom - 500bb more with the 4th nuts? Quote
    01-02-2014 , 08:15 AM
    I'd close my eyes and shove. I hate folding too much.
    200 zoom - 500bb more with the 4th nuts? Quote
    01-02-2014 , 08:47 AM
    Fold.
    200 zoom - 500bb more with the 4th nuts? Quote
    01-02-2014 , 09:46 AM
    insane stack depths
    200 zoom - 500bb more with the 4th nuts? Quote
    01-02-2014 , 10:15 AM
    Zoom is great for running up stacks.
    200 zoom - 500bb more with the 4th nuts? Quote
    01-02-2014 , 11:29 AM
    What a spot - all 3 options are really really close and which one is better is 100% villain dependant imo.
    I probably call and figure it out on the river.
    200 zoom - 500bb more with the 4th nuts? Quote
    01-02-2014 , 03:45 PM
    Quote:
    Poker Stars, $1/$2 No Limit Omaha Cash
    They have No Limit Omaha Zoom?
    200 zoom - 500bb more with the 4th nuts? Quote
    01-02-2014 , 03:57 PM
    The problem isn't with the turn decision between calling or folding.

    The problem is creating a spot where you're flipping a coin to decide what you're doing at this stack depth.

    That said the decision is call or fold, and the answer is that if you take this line it better be a very clear cut call

    Last edited by yrmom; 01-02-2014 at 04:03 PM.
    200 zoom - 500bb more with the 4th nuts? Quote
    07-11-2014 , 06:09 AM
    Results?

    What is an sim?
    200 zoom - 500bb more with the 4th nuts? Quote
    07-11-2014 , 06:30 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MultiTabling
    They have No Limit Omaha Zoom?
    I think this is a bug, when I post my hands from stars plo25z converter displays it as NLO but its not.
    200 zoom - 500bb more with the 4th nuts? Quote
    07-11-2014 , 08:10 AM
    highly depends on villain imo, but since you are readless, i guess you have to call and play a river in position.
    don´t like shoving. don´t like folding, closer to fold though than to shove imo.
    200 zoom - 500bb more with the 4th nuts? Quote
    07-11-2014 , 11:18 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MultiTabling
    They have No Limit Omaha Zoom?
    No, just an error w/ the hand converter

    As for the hand, don't really have anything helpful to add except "it's close." If you're not going to fold, I think jamming is probably better than calling.

    He is tight and raised utg so he shouldn't have that many combos of 45 in his preflop range. I also think that based on his raised sizing he could have some double paired 44/55 hands w/ flopped fd and is playing his blockers.
    200 zoom - 500bb more with the 4th nuts? Quote
    07-11-2014 , 03:30 PM
    I think a fold is very exploitative but maybe best.
    Best case scenario:
    Any 4 with double flush draw :

    ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
    121,000 trials (Exhaustive)
    board: A367
    Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
    As6s5d6d54.99% 66,0311,002
    cchh45.01% 53,9671,002

    Ok scenario :
    ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
    246,960 trials (Exhaustive)
    board: A367
    Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
    As6s5d6d39.26% 95,8912,108
    cchh,77,A789,89T:cc60.74% 148,9612,108

    Crushed :
    ProPokerTools Omaha Hi Simulation
    633,960 trials (Exhaustive)
    board: A367
    Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
    As6s5d6d29.05% 173,55321,263
    cchh,77,A789,89T:cc,45,AA70.95% 439,14421,263
    200 zoom - 500bb more with the 4th nuts? Quote
    07-11-2014 , 04:40 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Benni19
    Results?

    What is an sim?
    OP shoves, Villain had KK22hhcc, river pairs board, ship the monies.
    200 zoom - 500bb more with the 4th nuts? Quote
    07-11-2014 , 06:35 PM
    folding would be bad
    200 zoom - 500bb more with the 4th nuts? Quote
    07-12-2014 , 10:03 AM
    I like calling flop. Bet/fold turn sucks and shove is just like burning money. Either bet/call or check back. I expect villain to show up with AAcc or 4567hh/cc a lot.

    @Mods, please delete the noise
    200 zoom - 500bb more with the 4th nuts? Quote
    07-12-2014 , 11:23 AM
    Try to convince me that call turn is better than 3b all in turn.
    200 zoom - 500bb more with the 4th nuts? Quote

          
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