[converted_hand][hand_history]IPoker, $1/$2 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #31991602

MP: $586 (293 bb)
CO: $214.35 (107.2 bb)
Hero (BTN): $577.87 (288.9 bb)
SB: $802.80 (401.4 bb)
BB: $270.15 (135.1 bb)
UTG: $200.55 (100.3 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with 8 5 8 6
3 folds, Hero raises to $5, SB raises to $17, BB calls $15, Hero calls $12

Flop: ($51) T Q 8 (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $38, SB raises to $115.50, BB folds, Hero calls $77.50

Turn: ($282) K (2 players)
SB bets $126, Hero calls $126

River: ($534) T (2 players)
SB bets $534, Hero calls $319.37 and is all-in

Weird line from villain - any info on him?

Straightflush is the only hand that makes sense. We can't beat a value hand and I hate folding boats

Gii otf

+1, not close.

Can we really have the best hand most of the time when we ship in 280 BB OTF? I feel like we'd be crushed in that spot.

Yeah , they always have KQQJcc .

cash out pre.

I realize it can be frustrating when noobs like me ask questions that have obvious answers to a more experienced player like yourself. My apologies in advance. I'm just trying to learn more and improve my game.

When I think of the kinds of hands that were 3bet pre and would get into a raising war with us OTF for 280 BB, I can't think of many/any that we crush.

SB is a 1/2 online player with 400 BB, so I'm going to assume he's not a fish and wouldn't stack off here with bare Aces or QT.

I also don't see SB going nuts with a worse FD than ours, not only because he 3bet pre OOP but because it's pretty hard to have a worse FD.

By contrast, it's easy for me to see how he'd have an overset or top two with a better FD and we're essentially drawing dead.

Or he has a Broadway draw with a FD; AA+SD+FD; AKJ9+NFD; QJT9+FD and we're way behind. Even against a hand like AA96 we're only winning 58.5% of the time.

It just seems like we're not doing well against a 3bet pre range that GII OTF for so deep. Please let me know if I'm going about this all wrong. Like I said, I'm here to learn. Thanks for your patience...

if SB is conservative than I agree with OP line.

This is abit deep to be stacking bottom set , however if SB virtually always has all of his J9r and AKQJcctypish then its like, a flip, but going to lose the cooler battle (99% of the time as every ownership of texture is the weakest) in the long run with bottom set and bad flush draw. 150bb I'm snapping it all off very happily but approaching 300bb I'm not enjoying getting into 6b coolers

Correction.

We should be doing worse than that when stacks get in, but the SB should be folding to a 3-bet some measurable amount.

(If neither is the case, the SB's strategy is hilariously bad -- a complete abomination -- and he'll get wrecked in the strat-vs.-strat EV game anyway.)

no one gives a **** about the BB with double interests shown already it's more unlikely he is conflicting than average. It makes SB stronger of course, but i'ts not really worth accounting for.

I really can't see any point your post. Worse that what? vs J9r+ AKJQcc ish range? It's hard to be doing worse than that, I and most have this at the bottom of range as SB. People that are bluffing or overbetting on SB are atrocious. The bluff hands are still decent in equity anyway. AJJKcc for instance. got to assume a decently wide calling range, and hero cbet range is strong/less often on this board very wet board 3 ways. There is nothing really that we have that he doesn't mirror + more - which is signific at this stak depth

What are you talking about?

Worse than +6 bb (or any positive x bb).

Corollary: the stack-off portion of the SB's raising range should be stronger than [strong NFD combos, all J9]. (See ETA.)

lol.


ETA: Apparently "J9r" means "J9 with redraws". It's probably not a good idea to use such idiosyncratic terminology.

it means rainbow which is deduced as not having the flush draw, and the QT boats is prettuy much a flush draw in terms of its relative value vs straight... never seen r = meaning redraw.

You claim authority on something 'should' and do not even describe it. What else is he stacking? Only fish are stacking naked set at 280bb against a straight board. And at this depth QQ with straight blockers is raise folding a smaller amount ideally. You are overestimating the freq of blockers and blocker bluffs turning up , or are seeing some bull**** air range that is stacking.

It's better to use terminology that everyone can understand.

The SB's default strategy "should" not be terrible in glaringly obvious ways. That's basically the full extent of what I said the SB's strategy "should" be (but phrased differently).

It's pretty much axiomatic. No "descriptions" are necessary.

You're forgetting about the very strong set composites.

You're assigning the SB a raising range against which the BTN should just fold a very high % of his betting range (even against this relatively small check-raise). Why wouldn't the SB then respond by bluffing with things weaker than a NFD+wrap?

No. r is well enough known, i'm not putting so much effort into accommodating for lack of syntax.

You're forgetting that I put a +. I know I mentioned this being the bottom of range in words also somewhere. Obviously stronger set combos have us crushed, i don't even need to mention them being in his range because DUH THATS THE (equitable, and people who don't see the nuts as the equitable nuts are wasting their time) NUTZ It is only worth considering where the bottom of a range is when thinking about stack off. of course obv zzzzzzzz

Not in this context. It's also pretty ambiguous, given that it can denote both "rainbow" and "redraw".

This is pretty unconventional and non-intuitive syntax use. Why not just persevere through a few extra keystrokes and write out "top (and/or middle) set with very strong back-up" explicitly?

It does not denote redraw. There is default redraw in the **+

At least in my whole time I've never seen seen ****r meaning redraw in any form. If I say JT in plo it goes without saying I am saying JT**. THat's how it should work IMO and that how I will communciate.

People know from a very young age what '+' means. LIke I said I can't accomodate for lack of syntax. It only confuses matters when people do not use symbols and write subjective terms like 'strong back up'. I am writing for more my own benefit anyway, it's just warm up excercise for tables. I put alot of effort into understanding other syntaxes, I don't claim authority on how others should write.