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100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4

02-09-2014 , 10:51 PM
    IPoker, $0.50/$1, $0.20 ante Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 5 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #23366041

    MP: $105.80 (105.8 bb)
    CO: $283.29 (283.3 bb)
    BTN: $117.15 (117.2 bb)
    SB: $200.10 (200.1 bb)
    Hero (BB): $100 (100 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with 5 9 T A
    2 folds, BTN raises to $2.20, SB folds, Hero calls $1.20

    Flop: ($5.90) 7 T 6 (2 players)
    Hero checks, BTN bets $5.50, Hero calls $5.50

    Turn: ($16.90) 4 (2 players)
    Hero checks, BTN bets $16, Hero raises to $64.90, BTN raises to $109.25 and is all-in, Hero calls $27.20





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    Vil seems like a reg, 412 hands, 20/17, 45% agg, 45% btn steal, 65% cb, 7 of 10 turn barrel, 33% sd, no notes or any good reads.
    100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 Quote
    02-10-2014 , 12:56 AM
    I fold pre. His turn bet sizing would deter me from doing this. Also while we can represent a bare 89 or 85 I think flop play might be different the majority of the time with 89 and so we don't get him to fold sets or two pair + blockers type hands...
    100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 Quote
    02-10-2014 , 05:47 AM
    Wow what are you thinking pre? That seems insanely bad to me
    100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 Quote
    02-10-2014 , 06:22 AM
    ^doing the opposite is insanely bad. insanely and its not close

    shoving turn vs that size is also insanely bad though. looks like you're getting a bit too fancy by a lot of your posts
    100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 Quote
    02-10-2014 , 11:39 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S
    Wow what are you thinking pre? That seems insanely bad to me
    i guess you defend way too rarely vs btn steals...
    100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 Quote
    02-10-2014 , 02:46 PM
    Its a button min-raise in PLO, obviously calling pre is fine.

    Aside from that also looks fine assuming a turn near-pot is a regular occurrence for this villain. Vs some players I pick up a sizing tell there which *gasp* might even cause me to fold.
    100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 Quote
    02-10-2014 , 03:30 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NMcNasty
    Its a button min-raise in PLO, obviously calling pre is fine.

    Aside from that also looks fine assuming a turn near-pot is a regular occurrence for this villain. Vs some players I pick up a sizing tell there which *gasp* might even cause me to fold.
    even if he pots the turn with his whole opening range we're still flipping....

    I prob just fold if you have no info on his pot sizing....visibility sucks - we're not getting paid if we river a flush unless he has better or is braindead
    100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 Quote
    02-10-2014 , 03:45 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SNGplayer24
    even if he pots the turn with his whole opening range we're still flipping....
    Shoving turn isn't for value, its a clear semibluff. I think given that our hand is awkward to play on a lot of rivers regardless of what comes is more reason to try and get it in on turn. The main idea though is to get hands like the low straights and mediocre combo draws to just fold right away.
    100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 Quote
    02-10-2014 , 04:43 PM
    whats up with these gay opening sizes these days anyways?
    100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 Quote
    02-10-2014 , 05:08 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NMcNasty
    Shoving turn isn't for value, its a clear semibluff. I think given that our hand is awkward to play on a lot of rivers regardless of what comes is more reason to try and get it in on turn. The main idea though is to get hands like the low straights and mediocre combo draws to just fold right away.
    that sounds super ambitious for a reg who just potted into us and we have reads
    100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 Quote
    02-10-2014 , 05:34 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Doorbread
    ^doing the opposite is insanely bad. insanely and its not close

    shoving turn vs that size is also insanely bad though. looks like you're getting a bit too fancy by a lot of your posts
    Whaaat? We have like a terrible hand vs a raise, that never flops anything, and are going to be out of position for the entire hand postflop against a solid player.

    I'm seriously in shock right now.
    100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 Quote
    02-10-2014 , 05:40 PM
    Defend pre, yes.

    Turn call is questionable. Turn-raise is FPS and spew.
    100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 Quote
    02-10-2014 , 06:08 PM
    missed the antes eskimo? Still think it's probably a defend without them though.
    100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 Quote
    02-10-2014 , 06:47 PM
    easy defend pre, even without ante it's a closer, but still defend spot.
    ott against that sizing is probably a spew, we're doing just too terrible against his gii range (and it honestly doesn't look like he's going to fold, unless you got a solid read)
    100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 Quote
    02-10-2014 , 07:39 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sauhund
    i guess you defend way too rarely vs btn steals...
    I guess you defend way too much... I mean if we defend with this hand, what hands are we folding? Our hand has 47% vs a 45% opening range, has poor visibility in lots of situations post flop and rarely flops very strongly. Evidence of what can go wrong when you defend hands as poor as this are visible in OP...

    Would only begin to consider defending if villain was stealing 60% or more OTB. At 45% though and it's just not worth it.

    Turn I lean strongly towards folding based on his sizing.
    100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 Quote
    02-10-2014 , 07:51 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by F_Ivanovic
    I guess you defend way too much... I mean if we defend with this hand, what hands are we folding? Our hand has 47% vs a 45% opening range, has poor visibility in lots of situations post flop and rarely flops very strongly. Evidence of what can go wrong when you defend hands as poor as this are visible in OP...

    Would only begin to consider defending if villain was stealing 60% or more OTB. At 45% though and it's just not worth it.

    Turn I lean strongly towards folding based on his sizing.
    cmon boy, i was referring to eskimo, pre is obv a defend, all our other options are much worse than calling, so i agree with a defend 100%.
    c/c turn though, maybe even c/f against his sizing, donīt jam.
    100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 Quote
    02-10-2014 , 07:59 PM
    I know, I just posted because I agreed with eskimo here! I don't see how it's obviously a defend. As I asked, what hands are you folding (other than complete garbage) if you're calling with this? I think at best defending is only marginally +ev, and at worst it can really hurt your w/r especially when you end up getting into spots like this post-flop.

    I guess I must be wrong though with most people advocating otherwise but I just can't see it :/
    100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 Quote
    02-10-2014 , 08:40 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by F_Ivanovic
    I know, I just posted because I agreed with eskimo here! I don't see how it's obviously a defend. As I asked, what hands are you folding (other than complete garbage) if you're calling with this? I think at best defending is only marginally +ev, and at worst it can really hurt your w/r especially when you end up getting into spots like this post-flop.

    I guess I must be wrong though with most people advocating otherwise but I just can't see it :/
    mathematical defend, just donīt go crazy postflop.
    most regs at low limits just fold so many hands against a btn steal or 3bet an unbalanced range to avoid postflop play oop, itīs so exploitable, you basically can minopen every btn once itīs folded to you with two regs in the blinds...
    100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 Quote
    02-10-2014 , 08:47 PM
    Yeah but villain is only opening 45% OTB so chances are he isn't trying to exploit us BTN stealing every time. As I said in my first post if villain was opening 60% or more OTB then I'm willing to defend this hand but vs a 45% opener I don't think we need to.
    100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 Quote
    02-10-2014 , 08:58 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by F_Ivanovic
    Yeah but villain is only opening 45% OTB so chances are he isn't trying to exploit us BTN stealing every time. As I said in my first post if villain was opening 60% or more OTB then I'm willing to defend this hand but vs a 45% opener I don't think we need to.
    might be close w/out antes, although i would still defend, but with antes itīs a clear defend.
    100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 Quote
    02-10-2014 , 11:16 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ndahlhoff10
    missed the antes eskimo? Still think it's probably a defend without them though.
    I did miss the antes, though I would fold even with the antes.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sauhund
    mathematical defend, just donīt go crazy postflop.
    most regs at low limits just fold so many hands against a btn steal or 3bet an unbalanced range to avoid postflop play oop, itīs so exploitable, you basically can minopen every btn once itīs folded to you with two regs in the blinds...
    This has me thinking for sure though.

    I think some part of this comes down to bluffing frequencies and red line vs blue line. For people with a very high blue line and low bluff frequency this is probably a losing call pre, for people willing to be more creative postflop this is possibly a +ev spot.
    100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 Quote
    02-10-2014 , 11:24 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ESKiMO-SiCKNE5S
    I did miss the antes, though I would fold even with the antes.



    This has me thinking for sure though.

    I think some part of this comes down to bluffing frequencies and red line vs blue line. For people with a very high blue line and low bluff frequency this is probably a losing call pre, for people willing to be more creative postflop this is possibly a +ev spot.
    yup I'm with you... might / must need to defend more. Still a defend if btn 3xbb ? w/o antes?
    100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 Quote
    02-11-2014 , 12:43 AM
    Lol, didn't even see antes. I mean when you need less than 20% to call and your hand is likely 45%ish you have to be really bad to not figure out a way to make money somehow.
    100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 Quote
    02-11-2014 , 09:26 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tyrannic
    Still a defend if btn 3xbb ? w/o antes?
    2.2x without antes is a close defend imo but against 3x it starts getting a pretty trivial fold, except probably against some villains you wanna play a hand against 'at all costs'
    100 6m (ante), AT95+ weak fd, T76ss 4 Quote

          
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