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Vayo's role in the Kassouf Benger hand Vayo's role in the Kassouf Benger hand

10-28-2016 , 12:09 AM
As I watched this hand I felt that Vayo was out of line for helping Kassouf estimate his stack.

If a player asks his heads up opponent how many chips he has, he can choose to answer or not. Benger chose not to despite Kassouf repeatedly asking him. Kassouf asked the dealer how much he had left and the dealer (appropriately) did not reply. Why does Vayo feel justified in saying anything at all in a pot that he's not involved in?

As long as a player's big chips are in front and visible to the opponent, isn't it the opponent's job to figure out the stack? Shouldn't Vayo's only options be to keep quiet or call the clock?

Curious to hear the communities thoughts on this one
Vayo's role in the Kassouf Benger hand Quote
10-28-2016 , 10:11 AM
We could be at the dawn of new poker terminology- that of Being a Vayo. Just absolutely, totally sticking one's obtuse and overcooked opinion into situations where it is not welcome, not warranted, piling on, whatever.

Its sort of what I meant in the no spoilers thread when I opined he was "so San Francisco"
Vayo's role in the Kassouf Benger hand Quote
10-28-2016 , 04:06 PM
I don't think Kassouf really wanted to know the number. I mean stack sizes were not significant at this point. It was always going in anyway. It was more about hearing Griffin "the pussy" Benger say something. So it didn't affect the result no matter who said what.

That said. Yes, he was out of line. I hope he busts in 8th after the little girl. Unless the euro TD wins, it's going to be someone who was a bit of dick.
Vayo's role in the Kassouf Benger hand Quote
10-28-2016 , 04:13 PM
One player to a hand imo. By announcing Bengar's stack Vayo could be changing Kassouf's action. If I was Bengar I would be annoyed that he did that as Kassouf was befuddled.
Vayo's role in the Kassouf Benger hand Quote
10-28-2016 , 08:41 PM
Wow, you guys are so clueless. Dealer is allowed to give chip stack count as is anyone on the table, this is public information.
Vayo's role in the Kassouf Benger hand Quote
10-28-2016 , 09:12 PM
Yes Vayo was out of line here
Vayo's role in the Kassouf Benger hand Quote
10-28-2016 , 10:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maliant
Wow, you guys are so clueless. Dealer is allowed to give chip stack count as is anyone on the table, this is public information.
Public information how much is in the pot but the dealer isn't allowed to tell a player in a no limit variant. I imagine but not certain a players stack is the same their only obligation is to make sure it is visible.

And yes Vayo has no business counting his stack. Imagine he was just trying to speed things along as Kassouf would prob sit there for a hour asking him if no one answered.
Vayo's role in the Kassouf Benger hand Quote
10-29-2016 , 04:29 AM
Every time I've played cash I've asked the dealer at least once roughly how much a player has and they have always answered me.

The dealers at the WSOP are a joke.
Vayo's role in the Kassouf Benger hand Quote
10-29-2016 , 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by U shove i call
And yes Vayo has no business counting his stack. Imagine he was just trying to speed things along as Kassouf would prob sit there for a hour asking him if no one answered.
This is hilarious and yet absolutely valid speculation. Vayo may have saved the table two+ minutes of Kassouf's camera-hogging and tedious blather by doing something which (at the time I first saw it) prompted me to think he should just butt out. Plus immediately before this Kassouf actually asks either the dealer or Vayo (who is on the other side of the dealer, you can't tell who Kassouf is asking) if Benger is required to answer and/or if he can see the stack....he talks such word-meld jibberish it's hard to tell.

Some here want Vayo to die a slow death for repeating rumors Kassouf's antics helped create and Benger too for doing exactly what Kassouf was trying to induce (snapping - three words, the horrah!). Their hero can do no wrong and yet everyone at the table getting out of their lane and saying/doing things they would never normally do during a poker tournament are just by-products of the William Kassouf cavalcade of clownishness.
Vayo's role in the Kassouf Benger hand Quote
10-29-2016 , 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maliant
Wow, you guys are so clueless. Dealer is allowed to give chip stack count as is anyone on the table, this is public information.
Incorrect.
Quote:
WSOP Rule #106. Cards and Chip Stacks Kept Visible, Countable, and Manageable. Discretionary Color-Ups: Participants are entitled to a reasonable estimation of an opponent's chip count; thus chips should be kept in countable stacks. Clean stacks in multiples of 20 are recommended as a standard. Participants must keep their higher denomination chips visible and identifiable at all times. Floor People will control the number & denomination of chips in play and may color up at their discretion. Discretionary color ups are to be announced. Participants with live hands must keep their cards in plain view at all times.
This means that players who would like to know another player's chip stack count must estimate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuluck
Every time I've played cash I've asked the dealer at least once roughly how much a player has and they have always answered me.

The dealers at the WSOP are a joke.
The World Series Of Poker is a tournament, not a cash game.
Vayo's role in the Kassouf Benger hand Quote
12-29-2016 , 05:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jigsaw
Incorrect.


This means that players who would like to know another player's chip stack count must estimate it.



The World Series Of Poker is a tournament, not a cash game.
But another player at the table giving their estimation of the players chip count isn't in breach of rule 106. While it may influence a players action it's up to that player to interpret that information and act accordingly.

Given Kassoufs stalling tactics I think it was probably done more out of frustration than anything. Vayo didn't tell him his stack and how much he should bet and Benger isn't a rookie and knew how much he had.
Vayo's role in the Kassouf Benger hand Quote
12-31-2016 , 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smashed you bro
But another player at the table giving their estimation of the players chip count isn't in breach of rule 106. While it may influence a players action it's up to that player to interpret that information and act accordingly.

Given Kassoufs stalling tactics I think it was probably done more out of frustration than anything. Vayo didn't tell him his stack and how much he should bet and Benger isn't a rookie and knew how much he had.
One player to a hand. If you need help, go do something else.
Vayo's role in the Kassouf Benger hand Quote
01-03-2017 , 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jigsaw
One player to a hand. If you need help, go do something else.
With the amount of time it takes for a hand to play out these days I'm fine with Vayo chiming in to expedite play. A few other things to consider:

1. Not all seats have the same visibility to each player's chip stack. The guy sitting right next to the play in question can quickly and easily count his stack.

2. There's no skill advantage to being able to count a stack from across the table. Its not like Timex is crushing online bc he constantly has exact stack sizes given to him by the poker site and suddenly is winning at a lower rate bc he has to count stacks on his own.

3. Its not in a player's best interest to answer how much he has left. The opponent likely knows his stack size and is just trying to read in to irregularities in speech. There's no benefit to answering EXCEPT speeding the game along in the event that a player truly can't see the stack well enough. Having a 3rd party pipe up and give the count allows the last aggressor to maintain silence while getting the necessary info to the deciding player.
Vayo's role in the Kassouf Benger hand Quote

      
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