i don't know how good McPhee is at pokers whatever,
but i do know that anyone who says s*** like 'blah blah your range' to their opponent
at a table is a ****** though.

selbst: 'i don't know why he's going after me?"
...too funny. clueless!

this is more a poker battle between 2 amoebas than a sophisticated and 'advanced' clash of two high level thinkers... (not saying vanessa isn't a high level thinker, but this one??)

+1

So true.

Even at the highest level of poker these type of comments are fueled by ego and a desire to show everyone your better then they are.

Selbst got McPhee's perception of her range completely wrong. That's bad poker. You need to be aware of your image.

Interesting debate...

I hope everyone watched the complete show, and not just THAT hand in isolation.

The 'post-match analysis' from both players was fascinating.

(Yes, I'm blatantly spamming - watch Episode 8 of EPT Berlin at PokerStars.tv!)

great call but the less ugly player.

sick plug.

but yeah but people should watch the full episode for more insight on the hand...

Off-topic, but same episode.

Sick slow-roll by Kilickser. Are all Germans taught this at birth?

doubt it was a slowroll in his mind

the guy is pretty clueless

U should see his ft blow up what a tool

Funny how she blames him in the interview afterwards of going for such a high variance play against her when there`s all those fish who are much safer to crush.
...Maybe dont 4-bet to induce a 5-bet to 6-bet-shove on with 4s and you dont have that problem in the first place.

Watching his horrible play was second only to the awesomeness that is Cengizcan Ulusu.

I'm a very very bad player so I'm probably wrong but I think it's a mistake by Selbst beacause when she gives her reasoning she says that she has 40% with 44 against what she thinks is his 5 betting range here. Now when she 6bets her perceived range is obviously wider than her real range as she describes it so she has (especially with the pot odds) no fold equity whatsoever and he needs to call. So she's basically ( if her reasoning in the video is really hers) shoving with 40% equity against a 5bet range that can not fold.

Obv Selbst is very smart and she was maybe thinking about all this and thought that because her perceived is weaker than her real one, she can still value shove the bottom of this shoving range becaue Mcphee will adjust to what he perceives as a (wrongly) wide range and call with a range that she does not have 40% equity with but more. But 1) She does not give this as an explanation for the shove 2) She's still not going to get a big enough equity edge to justify it as a value shove at this stage tournament with this field even if Mcphee adjusts and widens his calling range.

Am I completely wrong here?

you don't sound like a very very bad player to me...

it's a tarp!

This. it should never come to 6bet shove but when it did it was a good call.

poker players spend too much time dick measuring

Yeah, especially Vanessa

This is the right answer.

It's like your typical live fish would react. Someone makes a "horrible" call (very debatable here, but let's assume it was), then you either rake in the chips when the board runs out in your favour or start complaining about the guy making a bad call if you happen to lose (which according to your own reasoning you rarely would). It's kind of classless.

Tfb though, she herself thought so and said she regretted her reaction later in the airing (or the next episode).

Glad she lost, stupid bitch #MacPheeOwn

Crazy hand. To me, it encapsulates how far poker has come in the last ten or so years--from 3bets meaning QQ+ to all-out spazz wars between wizards.

Vanessa comes off pretty badly, I think. She has blinders on when it comes to McPhee "playing back" at her. Pouting about being played back at after 4betting and then 6betting 44? lol.


I thought both players' commentary (and the show as a whole) were good, def. recommend watching for fuller analysis.

Oh, and some props to McPhee for landing Liv? That's strong work.

I am on Selbst side simply due to fact that because of MacPhee my chances of ever being with Liv are even smaller than they were!

Talk about being results oriented.

she doesn't seem to have changed a bit. i remember playing in a 10/20 nl ring with vanessa back in 2007 at the bellagio. one hand i raise JTdd she 3bets IP i call, flop comes AQ5dd, i checkraise all in she calls, board blanks out and she scoops it with AK. even though she won, she was exactly like in that video, berating my play, etc. overall had just horrible table etiquette imo. even though i was just visiting vegas (and the states), i remember thinking how absurdly bad manners some pros had at the table and vanessa especially.

you guys are funny.

this sounds like a hand i TOTALLY would have berated you for. right. i love the stories from randoms about me flipping people off or berating people for no reason... like that EVER would have happened. if you're gonna complain about something i supposedly did five years ago to you, at least make it believable. it makes no sense that i would have berated you for a play that is 100% standard by the book poker.

the thing is... i've never been bitter or mean at the table, just very competitive. that means i never ever have "berated" people for completely standard plays, and i almost never "berated" amateurs. i just used to, admittedly, have a bad habit of getting upset about terrible plays from players i thought were supposed to be better than that. every now and again, when i get emotional for one reason or another, that comes up again. i think those that know me know that it's just a symptom of my hyper-competitive nature and i don't ever mean anything by it, but i get that it comes across poorly on TV. that's cool.

i'm sure people will always make up stories... i just thought the people who are actually watching might care to understand... sometimes when you're really caught up in the moment, you can get overly emotional when someone you think will act one way acts another. most of the time i'm just mad at myself for thinking one thing when another thing happened... i.e. i made a mistake, and i'm upset about that, and it comes across in a negative way. ah well, i'll continue to work on it and have this be rarer and rarer, most people will notice that, and i'm sure i'll also continue to read random made-up stories as well.

as far as this hand itself, me and kevin are over it and we're cool again, so you guys might as well get over it too.

Vanessa pwns everyone on and off the felt as usual. Close thread

So you'd consider it wrong to berate an amateur or somebody for making a standard play. But it's somewhat excusable to berate someone for making a bad play? I understand the in the moment aspect and competitive nature. The thing is...that still opens up people to berate you for your berating in general. Sort of like that Phil H guy. But hey, if that's all you have to work on then you're doing A-okay. Continued success to you.