That's make perfect sense! The dealer is not there to 'just' deal cards, their job is make the game as fair as possible for everyone & take control of the table too.

I sees lots of time player with experience always declared 2 pair without showing their cards went the community card paired up, than the noob/fatigue player table big pocket pair thinking they only have 1 pair. It is absolutely the dealer job to tell the noob he also have 2 pairs since he/she table the hold card. If the dealer only there to deal cards, the douchebag/angle shooter will run over the table.

wached the video once again. the moment when Hellmuth is sayin its not the rules of poker thats etiquette, look at him and listen his voice -- he knows thats BS

This makes me feel a little better. Most dealers if not almost all dealers, do not announce the value of the hand when only one is shown... at least where I play. However, I had forgotten that, some do push the 5 cards up to illustrate the hand and to speed up action particularly when the second guy is pondering and not showing. This is almost the same thing as saying the hand, though this still requires reading the board but makes it easier.

Please don't assume what I wanted was anything sleazy or not befitting a respectable establishment or dealer If the dealer is supposed to announce my hand I want her to do that. If she's not supposed to, and I haven't seen a dealer do that in this situation previously, then I don't want her to do that.

Another issue is that she seemed friendly with the player. I do not know for a fact she would do that for the other nine players. She might, she seems invested in doing the right thing, so I hope she'd be consistent. What's troubling, and something I detest in poker, is possible situations like this where a dealer or someone outside of the hand has the discretion to speak up when they like and be silent when they prefer. If this is the rule, they should do it every time... they don't. If it's not the rule, she should be admonished for doing so and corrected.

Far too often I see dealers and other players not in the hand influence play, I'd hate for there to be another way for them to help people win pots.

absolutely this

Obviously Bellend is right, but who cares cos hellmuth

The whole of society is built up by institutions where the practitioners often make decisions not based on rules, but on how they feel. Maybe this day, the dealer had a sweet cup of coffee and found a 50 dollar bill on the street. So she felt good and did her job to the fullest. If it's tomorrow and she hadn't gotten any sleep, she might not really care or be too slow to pick up what's going on.

That's why some of the grinders in the casino I frequent know the rules better than the dealers themselves. Because at the end of the day, you're responsible to make sure you're treated fairly and you simply cannot rely that trust in the hands of someone you don't really know.

More often than not, it's just variance. If you read up on the rules, you can get an edge or two and even be able to create certain scenarios that benefits you.

ITT: A lot of people confuse 'etiquette' with 'common behaviour'. Just because it was/is common to volunteer free information about your hand when someone announces 'you got it', does not make it etiquette.

Etiquette is based on some moral principle. The only reason this would be considered etiquette, is based on the idea that if there's no real downside to us, we should spare them the embarrassment of showing or whatever. To be a good guy.

Obviously, this is a pretty silly view to have, given that poker is a game of info, and giving out free info while receiving none in return IS a significant downside to us. The only difference between 2009 and 2014 is that people back then often didn't realise this, or weren't as concerned about farming every fraction of edge as we have to be now. So Bellande showing first isn't a matter of just being a good guy (etiquette), it's a case of fairness - which is entirely what the rules are there to protect.

tldr - It's not good etiquette to morally demand someone provides you with an advantage, in stark contrast to the rules which protect fairness. It never was etiquette, only commonly poor strategic behaviour.

On an etiquette level, Phil is obviously right. Especially in a game like this where everybody knows each other.

On a "technicality" level.. JRB is right.

Phil is obviously wrong on all counts.

If someone on the street asks you for $5, is it etiquette to oblige? Of course not.
If they just ask for the time? Arguably, yes.

When it costs you nothing, it's etiquette to be accommodating. Giving Phil free information is a direct cost to JRB, so etiquette clearly doesn't apply.

This. Rules of the game > player's etiquette

Them all being known pros makes that information more valuable if anything, especially considering high stakes. The etiquette governed by the rules of the game trumps all.