Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
The Joseph Cheong Thread The Joseph Cheong Thread

11-08-2010 , 01:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klavs
Ignoring the rest of your weird post... are you saying that being called by a hand YOU KNOW is worse than yours is a bad thing??????????
I mistyped that part, i meant to say it's clear that A7 is the worse hand. If Cheung even suspected that Duhamel was 3-betting with king-high, the min-raise 5-bet makes it clear that is not the case.
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote
11-08-2010 , 02:08 AM
For someone who has watched almost all the WSOP main events episodes, and the entire final table (Great 12ish hours of poker) i believed Cheong played amazing poker! Sure most people will focus on the results, but his entire demenor at the table from start to finish was unreal. When he got sucked out on with AA to the straight by the Italian, i remember just watching him and he was stone cold. Lots of respect for his calm attitude. Hope to see him win some bracelets in the next few years, with his level of play its just a matter of time...
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote
11-08-2010 , 03:18 AM
Cheong's 6 bet would have worked if he hadn't t been stealing so many pots.
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote
11-08-2010 , 03:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SavageTilt
- The fact that Duhamel's 5-bet was a minraise should surely set off alarm bells in Cheong's head. If Duhamel is weak, he won't want Cheong to interpret it as a signal to shove, and Cheong is almost certainly going to call a minraise with a decent hand (minraising as a bluff to give the impression of trying to induce is pretty bad, no?). If Duhamel is strong, he wants either to have his next action be interpreted by Cheong as an opportunity to shove or to have Cheong call OOP with a weak hand. Unless I'm missing something, the 5-bet minraise makes no sense unless Duhamel has a strong hand that he's willing to call shove with.
Not necessarily. He could be minraising there some of the time with a moderately strong hand for the express purpose of being able to get away from his hand if Cheong shoves (or at least give himself that option based on his read of the situation), where a bigger raise would commit himself to calling. Of course balancing that by minraising other times when he's super-strong.
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote
11-08-2010 , 03:38 AM
Good play..

Sometime they just have it.. Oh well.
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote
11-08-2010 , 04:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBD
he was way towards the top of his 4-bet range imo
just because you're at the top of your 4bet range does not mean you're not still crushed by villian's 5bet range. i think cheong just didn't think duhamel's first 5bet would be with a real hand when in reality duhamel was waiting for a big hand to really take a stand. it seemed like cheong expected duhamel to be one level higher than he was, and duhamel was focusing more on value hands bc of racener's short stack and thus, cheong basically out-thought himself.

aside from that hand though, it looked like cheong really put on a clinic. kudos for an amazingly played tournament, especially having been dealt that big blow against candio earlier.

Last edited by airwave16; 11-08-2010 at 04:36 AM. Reason: my grammar sucks
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote
11-08-2010 , 05:09 AM
these two videos perfectly explain cheong's 6-bet all in with A 7

duhamel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW4qQbzv2Tg

racener: YouTube - John Racener Heads-Up for the 2010 WSOP Main Event

the sick thing is cheong would play his hand the same way again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAWw-ox3HY0

Last edited by OMGJustinBieber; 11-08-2010 at 05:18 AM.
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote
11-08-2010 , 05:47 AM
all these people saying duhamel might have folded queens under any circumstances are crazy.
duhamel snap called very quickly after cheong went all in
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote
11-08-2010 , 06:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OMGJustinBieber
these two videos perfectly explain cheong's 6-bet all in with A 7

duhamel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW4qQbzv2Tg

racener: YouTube - John Racener Heads-Up for the 2010 WSOP Main Event

the sick thing is cheong would play his hand the same way again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAWw-ox3HY0
Pretty cool. A few thoughts:

Cheong comes off awesome, he doesn't get super defensive or anything but still seems comfortable with his play, pretty much just looks like "Nice, 4 milly, over it." Trusting yourself that you made the proper play and not getting rattled by results can't be easy.

Duhamel comes off well and is clearly very very good. He may just be being humble but I think he's sincere when he says Cheong's play is decent and he has a 5b/f range there. Overall seems like a good guy and i like him more than i did previously.

I always thought Racener was ok even if he dressed kinda douchey and looked like a goat with his constant chomping. Based on the interview he comes off as one of the weakest players at the FT except for Nguyen and Candio. His basic reaction of "internet kids do the darndest things", how he thinks Duhamels call is borderline (rofl),and overall plan of patience (HU with 25 bbs heh) just comes off nitty and not at all on the thought process level of cheong, duhamel and a couple others.
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote
11-08-2010 , 06:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerCurve1
Would Helmuth fold QQ there?
Hellmuth has reach the level today that he is so good that he cant call anybet anymore!! phrase from Tony G on party poker premium league.
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote
11-08-2010 , 06:36 AM
just lol @ the guys saying duhamel shoulda folded after intentionally 5betting the minimum to fake fold equity... *sigh*

is there some way to self-ban from nvg? so tilting
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote
11-08-2010 , 07:03 AM
JOSEPH CHEONG IS THE STONE COLD NUTS

Quote:
Originally Posted by OMGJustinBieber
these two videos perfectly explain cheong's 6-bet all in with A 7

duhamel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW4qQbzv2Tg

racener: YouTube - John Racener Heads-Up for the 2010 WSOP Main Event

the sick thing is cheong would play his hand the same way again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAWw-ox3HY0
also, he got unlucky at some spots? besides the AK where racener sucked out with the Q, he didn't get that unlucky, but actually lucky, I must not remind you some hands at showdown
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote
11-08-2010 , 08:21 AM
It is easy for all of us to be armchair quarterbacks, where some have good analytical in-depth thoughts and others just want to spew something. I too, wonder what I would had done in that spot in that very heat of the moment.

Reading through these posts and others, it is interesting to see everyone's take on it. For me personally, I think at the very least Cheong had a mis-read on Duhamel and it was costly.

But that what makes poker fun because it is situational.
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote
11-08-2010 , 09:36 AM
I think everyone is concentrating on the table play, and ignoring some of the metagame involved.

Before the final table started, Cheong is quoted as saying he didn't actually want to win the main event, he didn't want to do the poker ambassador thing, and would be happy with 2nd, although he also said he wouldn't "throw" it either.
Duhamel has been quoted as determined to be "the champion" as he puts it.

Take this into account, and I feel Cheong literally didn't care if he did go out in 3rd, but what he DOES know is that Duhamel, at least in Cheongs head, would be too scared to play for all his chips when the heads up match is almost guaranteed pending Racener getting busted.

Based on his relaxed attitude post-bust, I truly believe Cheong was happy with 3rd, and once he was guaranteed 3rd he freerolled it. Based on his starting stack when the final table began, 3rd is a pretty good innings. Although personally, I'd still be playing for more mirrrions if I got that far.

Just my few cents.
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote
11-08-2010 , 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mati_
Btw. if Candio would've been in Cheongs position, everyone (including me) would have obv. shouting and laughing about him beeing the greatest donk in history, and the final table will ever see. Now that one of the greatest players makes a bad move, and it was clearly one, they try to somehow legitimate it.
There is no way Candio 6 bets there. He would have pushed all on in on the re-raise.
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote
11-08-2010 , 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant2
therefore, pushing all-in with A7 is clearly a bad choice since you *know* you're going to be called with a worse hand. The right choices are either fold or call.
LOL.

You just joined, so I won't go hard on you.

You WANT to get called by a worse hand.
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote
11-08-2010 , 01:16 PM
lol'd hard, but this confuses me again with Duhamel's play with A2o,
he also know he will get called and he doesnt want a call, yet pushes
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote
11-08-2010 , 01:17 PM
Little pissed there was no SPOILER warning ITT, as I thought it was about Cheung's already televised play. Had been keeping off the threads that spoiled ME FT results, but this one snuck up on me.
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote
11-08-2010 , 02:28 PM
It kind of sucks because there was a third player with a small stack, but that was kind of one of the reasons I did it, to apply maximum pressure on him, so yeah I’m happy with how I played. Cheong said, I had a read on him, I went with my instincts and there’s nothing much more I can do. I obviously didn’t make the right read but I’d probably do it again.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/poker...al-table_N.htm
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote
11-08-2010 , 03:30 PM
Cheong threw it away great player though!!!
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote
11-08-2010 , 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTimSalabim
Not necessarily. He could be minraising there some of the time with a moderately strong hand for the express purpose of being able to get away from his hand if Cheong shoves (or at least give himself that option based on his read of the situation), where a bigger raise would commit himself to calling. Of course balancing that by minraising other times when he's super-strong.
why on earth would anyone with a clue ever ever do this?
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote
11-08-2010 , 03:52 PM
Apparently Cheong's blow-up was not a blow-up, but a strategic move. Whatever. It had all the markings of a fatigued blow-up.

The problem is that Cheong had himself convinced that he couldn't make mistakes. His confidence and the way he seemed to be able to run over the table made him think he could do no wrong.

When you're re-raising every raised pot, you're going to run into a monster eventually. I think it's really stupid to try to be such a force. Have some humility. Don't play God. Hellmuth was right when he said Cheong's style would bit him in the a$$.

IMO, biggest blow-up in WSOP history. If I were Cheong I would never sleep again.
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote
11-08-2010 , 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Fish
Little pissed there was no SPOILER warning ITT, as I thought it was about Cheung's already televised play. Had been keeping off the threads that spoiled ME FT results, but this one snuck up on me.
lol@coming to the Televised Poker Forum
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote
11-08-2010 , 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluffHead
Apparently Cheong's blow-up was not a blow-up, but a strategic move. Whatever. It had all the markings of a fatigued blow-up.

The problem is that Cheong had himself convinced that he couldn't make mistakes. His confidence and the way he seemed to be able to run over the table made him think he could do no wrong.

When you're re-raising every raised pot, you're going to run into a monster eventually. I think it's really stupid to try to be such a force. Have some humility. Don't play God. Hellmuth was right when he said Cheong's style would bit him in the a$$.

IMO, biggest blow-up in WSOP history. If I were Cheong I would never sleep again.
If he were the one calling the 6-bet allin w/ A7 I might agree with you, but he was obv bluffin, how the f can this be considered a blow-up? He clearly thought he could get Duhamel off his hand and it didnt work out. Blowup is losing your chips due to temporary brainfreeze, let`s not randomly change the lingo just because he lost a lot of chips.
He had his reasons for doing it and did not temporarily lose his mind calling off his stack with trash, no blowup here, move along.
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote
11-08-2010 , 04:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dos
Blowup is losing your chips due to temporary brainfreeze
Exactly, such as overbetting/trying to make a move/dusting off over 100 million.

It was just a grossly unnecessary power play at the worst stage in the tournament to try power plays.
The Joseph Cheong Thread Quote

      
m