Played at my local casino this past weekend and witnessed the following.

Player on my right and player on my left are heads up in a hand. It gets to the river and player on my left max bets $100 on the river (2-100 spread limit game).

An hour prior to this, the player on my right had requested the first possible seat change. The dealer at the time had given him a red "Reserved" button to let subsequent dealers know (this isn't really standard procedure as far as I know, but didn't seem like a big deal).

After tanking for about two minutes, player on my right flips the Reserved button (which he had been fiddling with) back to the dealer and because he was in seat 5, it landed right in the center of the pot. The dealer looked down to see what had been tossed, but before he could say anything, the player on my left flipped his hand (showing 2nd nut flush) thinking the other player had tossed a chip in the pot (while not the exact same shade as the Reserved button, $5 chips are also reddish).

The floor manager came over, heard the situation, left briefly to consult with another floor manager and then came back and ruled it was not a call, and it was seat 5's turn to act. He quickly folded and very meekly scooped his chips up and left the table. I wasn't 100% certain it was an angle as his overall mannerism to me felt more like a frustrated "I don't need this anymore." However, every other player at the table was convinced it was an angle shot with some saying it was the greatest angle shot they'd ever seen.

For the next couple hours, every time those of us who had witnessed the hand faced a big river bet decision, we would jokingly ask "Where's my Reserved button?" :-P

I doubt it was an angle, but it sure was stupid. So was the other player showing.

sounds like an angle especially with the guy quickly leaving afterward. but can't force him to call without being in his head or him having a history of doing this previously.

Or an angle by the other player who knew it wasn't a chip, and was trying to trap player into a call when he was really just getting ready to fold and leave the table. But probably wasn't an angle by either, with the guy tossing the seat change button not thinking it through, and the other player who hasn't learned not to instashow his cards.

not only and angle.... but, a call.

No...in fact, even if it was a chip, it should be clarified as to whether or not the guy facing a bet understands the action.


Yet another instance of how the ridiculous "one chip call" causes problems.

Why on earth would he pick the moment that he is facing a large bet to decide to return the reserved button? Maybe it was just restlessness or nervous energy, but that seems like awful suspicious timing.

He tossed the lammer to the dealer, and it landed in the pot. I think if it was an angle, he would have tossed it in front of him. I think the ruling is correct and not likely an angle, but no one really knows except the goofball who tossed it in.

This isn't a call.

There was a story on 2+2 a while back about a guy who tossed his lucky chip, from another casino, in front of him, then declared it wasn't a call when he saw he was beat.

Just like any ambiguous hand movements when facing action can be called a check, i think anything tossed in front of you when facing a bet should be considered a call. Too much room for angling otherwise. The alternative is to condition every player to stop action and ask the dealer to clarify every single chip call, which will slow down the game.

I don’t think that’s a call in a lot of casinos?

I’ve seen the ‘definitely angle’ version of that twice, once with a card protector and once with a chip that didn’t play in that game. Both times the floor ruled it wasn’t a call. First guy got a stern warning to never do that again, second guy got kicked out immediately.

Maybe because he decided he was quitting after the hand? Maybe he threw the seat change button in and was just about to fold when they other guy exposed his hand?

I saw a similar situation where a guy tanked while facing a river bet, then after a couple minutes he apologized to the dealer for taking so long and tossed them a $1 chip as a tip before attempting to muck. The other player who made the river bet ultimately calls the floor over, demanding it be ruled a call and the floor obliges because the tipper didn't muck his hand first. He was in the 7 or 8 seat and it was pretty clear the intent was towards the dealer's toke box on the dealer's right-hand side, buttttt it was also forward motion with one chip and (probably) in front of the betting line.

I use a chip-like card protector and have sometimes worried if I were to accidentally drop it in the pot while uncapping my cards to muck, if it could be ruled a call. Sounds like a no but if it happened with a live chip used as a card protector it could burn you.

or maybe it was distracting him while trying to make a decision, and didnd't want the seat change anymore

I would have done everything in my power to kill any conversation that used the word "angle shot."

Best case scenario is that everyone is wrong and just making fun of someone who made an honest mistake. Worst case scenario is that everyone is right and propagates terrible behavior.

I hate one chip calls...

Someone did this (not as an angle) to me in a tourney with their bounty chip, which was the same color as one of the higher denomination tourney chips.

I bet, he tanked and then tossed the bounty chip out which I guess meant he was all in. I thought he was just calling with a high tourney chip because he didn't have change. When he tossed the chip in, I rolled my hand over without saying "Call". I had the nuts. The dealer asked me if I called, and I said "... Yeah!" No one objected, thankfully. Got lucky.

I'm reminded of a similar story from a game other than poker. Might we look to this as precedent?

Baseball, 1800's. An angle-shooting catcher takes the field with a baseball-sized potato, peeled, in his pocket. First chance he gets, with a runner on first, he fires an attempted pick-off throw into right field. The runner heads to second, and the catcher easily throws him out. When the ump asks why he put two baseballs into play, he innocently claimed that he did no such thing, he just felt like throwing a potato into right field. It's not his fault if the runner can't tell the difference between a potato and a baseball.

I heard this story when I was a kid, so I don't recall the exact disposition of the case. I want to say they added a rule against potatoes, but don't hold me to that.

Try 1987

ESPN video

The baseball story sounds totally bogus , But I bet it is absolutely true!!

Did a quick search. It was actually in 1987 in the minors. The runner actually got awarded home plate once the umpires realized what had happened.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb...otato-20120223

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYXZNTxnyrQ

How??? What rule makes this a call? Literally only the floor ruling so under rule one would apply. House cannot make him put money in the pot. But they could ban him. For me I f it was a sizable amount it to call I would take a permaban. But I have multiple options to play at.

As noted he was most likely leaving and just returning the reserved button/token

I should add: this was clearly not an intentional angle shot. That button would have landed in the betting area if it was.

However, intent is irrelevant to this ruling: this action caused action behind, and should be binding. It looked like a call, and it sounded like a call. Sorry, Charlie, you just called, whether you meant to, or not. If you don't want to be held to a call, don't throw things that look exactly like chips into the pot when it's your turn to act.

Is it possible the 1987 guy read the same story I did?

(Dammit, what is it with me and baseball facts? I once posted a bad beat story in the Sports Betting forum about a Tigers-O's game in 1993, the year I moved to Vegas. They fact-checked me on that one, too, and told me that no such game was ever played--not in '93, not even in '92 or '94. I didn't make it up, I believed every word that I said. Oh well. That's why I'm the only guy in America who believes NBC anchor Brian Williams wasn't lying when he says he was shot while on assignment in a warzone. He claimed "that's how I remembered it," and no one bought that excuse. Except me! I feel you, Brian!)

Or I st get rid of the stupidity d one chip call. Tossing in one chip should not be a call. And tossing lammer back is ev n less a call.

I agree about one chip calls. But as long as one chip calls ARE allowed, anything that resembles a one chip call (and tossing in a lammer does) has to be considered a call. Otherwise, players need to stop and clarify action every single time a player does a one chip call, which is not good for the game.

But the fact is that a lammer is not a chip, does not look like a chip and even if it induces subsequent action, the remedy is to kill the hand not attempt to force a player to put cash into the pot. There is a legal reason a casino will not forcibly take chips from a player... It is illegal to do so. It would be theft in most jurisdictions. Attempting to make a rule of the game to do so would not be upheld. Particularly if the one chip call is a custom and not a written rule.